Comparing estimates - Sunpower vs. Solar City

[STAP]

Roof install in mountains east of San Diego (Ramona), 100% electric (no gas lines up to me) and avg. $210 electric bill per month.

Total energy consumption over 12 months is around 12,400 kW.

The Sunpower system was designed for about 8500 kW annual, 5.36 kW DC, 4.77 kW AC, 335B panels (16 panels) for a total of $37,384 before federal tax credits.

The Solar City designed a system producing 12,000 kW annually, 7.35 kW DC, not sure the AC rating (24 panels I think) for a total of $38,167 out of pocket.

Now, I understand that Sunpower's panels are more expensive - but even so it seems like the Solar City proposal has overbuilt my system, that is, I'm buying too far down into Tier 1, where the returns on solar are diminished.

Thoughts?

[bonaire]

Your goal is under $5.50/Watt installed in California. Paying more is silly and shows that they are starting to pump up the prices there.
In areas to the east, some people are installing roof-top systems for $4/Watt using Chinese panels.

Also - what have you done to establish conservation efforts in the home first? Do that and you can perform a lot of electric usage savings well before shopping for solar. CFL and LED lighting, timers for computers and DVRs, reviewing insulation, etc.

[frizzlefry]

Your Sunpower quote seems kind of high. I have 12600 kWh/yr w/ (24) 345 panels for $41k before credits/rebate.

[bonaire]

For the OP (STAP):
Oh - by the way - per watt means:

5.36 kW = 5360. So, $5.50 * 5360 = $29480 - don't pay more than something like that. Yes, SunPower are "the best" modules. But there are so many modules out there just about as good for a whole lot less. It may require using a few more modules if you go with say a 260W module from someone like SolarWorld or Suniva. But, you can also go 16 modules of 260W at $23K and then conserve here and there in the house for a similar end-result.

[STAP]

Your goal is under $5.50/Watt installed in California. Paying more is silly and shows that they are starting to pump up the prices there.
In areas to the east, some people are installing roof-top systems for $4/Watt using Chinese panels.

Also - what have you done to establish conservation efforts in the home first? Do that and you can perform a lot of electric usage savings well before shopping for solar. CFL and LED lighting, timers for computers and DVRs, reviewing insulation, etc.

I've done a pretty comprehensive conservation analysis - my family (5 kids!) don't waste a lot of power. Insulation is good, windows, ect are new energy-saving models.

I could do LED lighting, for sure. We don't have DVRs and use the TV minimally. Honestly we're pretty frugal with the power, the fact is that in our area the tiers are set so low that we hit 3rd tier every month and we minimize our waste!

Also, we have no gas where we live, we're on a hill so it's 220 oven, dryer.

[STAP]

For the OP (STAP):
Oh - by the way - per watt means:

5.36 kW = 5360. So, $5.50 * 5360 = $29480 - don't pay more than something like that. Yes, SunPower are "the best" modules. But there are so many modules out there just about as good for a whole lot less. It may require using a few more modules if you go with say a 260W module from someone like SolarWorld or Suniva. But, you can also go 16 modules of 260W at $23K and then conserve here and there in the house for a similar end-result.

That's good info. Thanks!

I've asked Sunpower for some amplifying information and will post that when I have it...

[nkohlimd]

Solar city

That's good info. Thanks!

I've asked Sunpower for some amplifying information and will post that when I have it...

I have an appointment with solar city tomorrow.

[mihzyd777]

Quick question for Bonaire.....

You said to stay under $5.50/watt.........what if I'm leasing the system and doing a 1 time cash payment and the system is mine for 20-years lease then what should I pay for that system since I'm not really buying it outright.

Thanks!

[Ian S]

Quick question for Bonaire.....

You said to stay under $5.50/watt.........what if I'm leasing the system and doing a 1 time cash payment and the system is mine for 20-years lease then what should I pay for that system since I'm not really buying it outright.

Thanks!

It will depend on the incentives available. It used to be you could do better going with a prepaid lease compared to the cost of purchase net of all incentives. Now, it's probably closer to a wash. What you gain with the prepaid lease is that the leasing company maintains the system for 20 years and you don't have to deal with applying and waiting for rebates and tax credits which depending on your tax situation could take two or more years to reach your pocket. Of course, you give up ownership of the system in return.

[mihzyd777]

Ian.....

Thanks for the response, but what I'm really trying to find out his how much I should be paying for let's say a 5kwh , 7kwh system etc...

So for example I have to look again at what they a saying my system should produce but let's say 5kwh for $13k one time lease payment is this to much? I believe so by almost double....would anyone else agree?

Thanks!

[Ian S]

Ian.....

Thanks for the response, but what I'm really trying to find out his how much I should be paying for let's say a 5kwh , 7kwh system etc...

So for example I have to look again at what they a saying my system should produce but let's say 5kwh for $13k one time lease payment is this to much? I believe so by almost double....would anyone else agree?

Thanks!

Well, what you need to do is find out the "size" or rated power of your system by which I mean the DC wattage. That will be expressed in kW (NOT kWh.) Basically, that's the number of panels times the individual panel DC wattage. Let's say it's a 7kW or 7000 watt system. Bonaire's rule of thumb for installed cost would be 7000 X $5.5 = $38,500. Now you can estimate all the incentives and tax credits and subtract from the $38,500 - be careful: some rebates may be reported on 1099 tax forms so the calculation gets messy and can involve your tax bracket. Once you've done that you can compare the net cost for outright purchase to the prepaid lease cost for the same system. If the prepaid lease price is significantly lower than outright purchase, then I'd go with it but YMMV. If the costs are close, then it's a tossup. If the prepaid lease is much higher than purchase then go with the purchase. The decision involves a lot of personal factors: some folks just want to own it, others are concerned about maintenance over the years and the paperwork and delays in getting all the incentives and tax breaks.

One thing about the lease: make sure the lease itself is with a major nationwide leasing player and not an in-house installer setup. Here in Phoenix, folks lost deposits when at least one installer couldn't follow through on their in-house lease and went bellyy-up. Which highlights another point: whether buying or leasing, try to pay as little as possible upfront. That may be harder to do with a purchase but with my prepaid Sunpower lease, I didn't pay a penny until after the system was up and running. It wound up being two months after but I'll bet they're faster at getting paid now!

[cyph]

The average of all the quotes I received recently in San Jose was around $4.2 a watt and that's with the bigger, popular companies. Of course, this was with going with the cheaper Solar Panels. Sunpower panels would easily push that north of $5. However, I'm in it to save money and quickly excluded Sunpower from my requirement.