SolarEdge battery profile switching by owner (privileges)

[chronos432]

darkskies does your HT system sound better on battery power? Any discernible difference image quality?

I see you’re in NH. I’m close by in Maine! Which installer did you go with?

[soby]

soby Yours isn't set to MSC right (maximize self consumption)? If I understand MSC correctly it should NOT be exporting to the grid from the battery. We have no TOU rates in Maine and it's net metering so I would never want to export to grid from the battery...

Thanks!

Correct. This is not normal behavior to output at full inverter capacity. But for a few dozen days in the summer, National Grid pays me an incentive to give them control of my setup to help them meet peak demand.

We also have 1:1 net metering with no TOU rates so I only charge the battery when there's clipping. Throughout the day, my inverter has a custom storage profile to only charge from clipped solar and then switches to MSC from 1am to 6am to drop the battery percentage back down to Backup Reserve.
Profile.JPG

[darkskies]

darkskies does your HT system sound better on battery power? Any discernible difference image quality?

I see you’re in NH. I’m close by in Maine! Which installer did you go with?

I've not discerned an audio or video difference when on LG Battery as a power source vs grid, but I have a WattBox battery and line conditioner setup for the HT, so power is always clean.

RE Installer: Not sure if the forum has any policy about discussing companies, and I couldn't figure out how to private message - moderators can slap my hand, if I'm not allowed...

A small company from the seacoast called Harmony Energy Works. I've got mixed feelings on them. They use quality products for the install (on both my previous house and this house), had excellent workmanship, and pricing was reasonable. However, in the past few years, with a tough time getting workers, and the huge demand due to rate increases in this area (we are over $0.30 kwh), their customer service has been really lacking. It takes forever to get a hold of them, and to get them to follow up and resolve issues. That coupled with Solar Edge's Backup Interface quagmire (a long story, but they're selling a product that isn't fully operational, and hasn't been for 1.5 years so far), has reflected poorly on the overall experience.

I have to admit, the installer has been trying to make things better, by installing an automatic transfer switch to give some functionality, and are scheduling an upgrade of the inverter for the cost difference between the units, to boost production, which is less than what PV Watts was estimating on the original install.

[toofargone]

Is it going back into the grid? Power has to be going somewhere and not just being dissipated as heat…
or your house is more power hungry than you realize? Assume not the latter.

Yep, it goes to the grid (and powers the house, but only for the short time as it overflows to the grid). My utility company (PGE) provides graphs that shows the spike.

soby

darkskies The installer could not install consumption meters (CTs) due to fitment issues, so I don't really have consumption numbers/graphs to display. Instead, I purchased an Emporia meter--we use ~0.5 kWh in the evenings (after solar production fades out) dropping to .3 over night. During a recent power outage, the battery powered the house through the evening and overnight and was about 55-60% in the am.

Both my installer and a SolarEdge tech insisted that the lack of CTs shouldn't matter. But I suspect that might be my issue.

[soby]

Both my installer and a SolarEdge tech insisted that the lack of CTs shouldn't matter. But I suspect that might be my issue.

That is 100% the problem. The way MSC works is by having the CTs measure power back and forth from the grid. It makes instantaneous adjustments for inverter output to minimize import from the grid. Without a way to know how much power you are trying to pull from the grid, the inverter doesn’t know how much power to pull from the battery to meet your household loads. The only output option is to go max output which is 5kW.

Without the energy meter, you are configured as “Backup Power Only” instead of “Smart Energy Management”.

https://knowledge-center.solaredge.c...n_guide_na.pdf

[Srrndhound]

This is the first time I have definitive evidence that my battery is NOT discharging properly under the "Maximize Self-Consumption" profile setting. For me, the battery just dumps the power at inverter max all at once until it hits reserve. It doesn't power the house through the evening >

I'm just curious about your production graph. It looks like your panels do not see the sun until ~11am. Am I reading that right? Is there an obstruction blocking your panels from the morning sun?

[chronos432]

That is 100% the problem. The way MSC works is by having the CTs measure power back and forth from the grid. It makes instantaneous adjustments for inverter output to minimize import from the grid. Without a way to know how much power you are trying to pull from the grid, the inverter doesn’t know how much power to pull from the battery to meet your household loads. The only output option is to go max output which is 5kW.

Without the energy meter, you are configured as “Backup Power Only” instead of “Smart Energy Management”.

https://knowledge-center.solaredge.c...n_guide_na.pdf

soby the CTs are not necessary if you have a Backup Interface (BUI) with a service line intercept right? If everything is passing through the BUI first where service enters home before the main panel the BUI should be able to measure all loads and production without extra CTs it seems.

But that all makes sense if there is no BUI, no CTs and the main panel is directly connected to the grid, no way for the inverter to know what the house load is.

darkskies - do you have a BUI on your system or CTs?

toofargone - I assume you have no BUI.. there are flexible Rogowski type loops that they should have been able to use in case of fitment issues.

[darkskies]

chronos432 I have a BUI on my setup and it measures both consumption and production. For everyone's consideration, from the Installation Guide for the BUI (my highlights added):

Backup Interface- controls disconnection of house loads from the grid and
integrates the following components to enable grid-tied solar backup and Smart
Energy Management. The Backup Interface must be installed to allow the operation
of batteries.

Energy Meter- is used by the inverter for export, import, production and
consumption readings, and for Smart Energy Management applications, such
as: export limitation, time-of-use profile programming and maximizing self-
consumption.

Auto-transformer- handles the phase load balancing.
200A microgrid interconnection device- disconnects the house loads from the
grid in case of a power outage.

Generator hardware support- supports connection for up to 15kW alternative
power supply. Generator connection requires supporting inverter firmware.

BTW: That last sentence has been the big grievance I've had with SE. They've been stating this since I bought the BUI in mid-2021, but that is a long and painful story.

[chronos432]

chronos432 I have a BUI on my setup and it measures both consumption and production. For everyone's consideration, from the Installation Guide for the BUI (my highlights added):



BTW: That last sentence has been the big grievance I've had with SE. They've been stating this since I bought the BUI in mid-2021, but that is a long and painful story.

That is painful darkskies . I assume you have the version 1 of the BUI? I am potentially getting the version 2 of the BUI with my install assuming PoCo approval. For my purposes we are doing version 2 because of the increased inverter current handling (144A vs 78A for version 1) but I wonder if there is improved support for generator power. Might be worth looking into, but still doesn't change the fact they promised something and did not deliver.

[chronos432]

darkskies also, just to confirm I understand correctly - you have the BUI but NO separate current transformers on your main service/main panel right?

[darkskies]

I do not have any CTs on main panel.

BTW, I use the SE API to get access to the SE site with data collected from my site, so I can programatically obtain production, consumption, self-consumption, etc. I wrote an app to collect info on my site to look at faults, energy data, battery, and so forth. More detailed than what I can get from the dashboard, and easier to consume than the CVS export that they have.


I'm not sure what version of the BUI I have (will see if it says on the unit). All the documentation says that the BUI integrates with a generator, eliminates the need for an ATS, and can provide whole or partial backup. The latest firmware (July 2022) talks about the batteries being recharged, when running from generator, but all the drawings and rest of text show either the generator connected to a critical circuits panel, or a third party ATS used.

I've opened over a dozen cases with SE about the firmware (which usually just get closed as resolved, with apologies that firmware is not available). Last May, I had an email from a support person saying this:

As for the generator support, this has been in the works for a while now. While the hardware is there in the BUI, the firmware for live operation is still in the testing phase. Any release information would have been estimates only. If anyone at SolarEdge has given a specific date, please let me know so I can correct that. I did reach out to the design team for the generator integration, and while we have no firm release dates yet, we are going to be releasing firmware in stages for support. The first stage is undergoing testing at some select sites, and is enabling the generator relay to close to allow a generator to supply power to the backup loads. This would be a situation where the inverters need to be OFF for the generator integration to function properly. The second stage of release would be congruent generator and inverter operation, and the final stage would be full dynamic control with the inverter, battery and generator working together.

Unfortunately, I have not been able to get an email response from him, after trying to get follow-up status months after that email (maybe he is not there any more). SE current line is that the firmware is available and I should talk to my installer about any system "design" issues.

[chronos432]

I do not have any CTs on main panel.

BTW, I use the SE API to get access to the SE site with data collected from my site, so I can programatically obtain production, consumption, self-consumption, etc. I wrote an app to collect info on my site to look at faults, energy data, battery, and so forth. More detailed than what I can get from the dashboard, and easier to consume than the CVS export that they have.


I'm not sure what version of the BUI I have (will see if it says on the unit). All the documentation says that the BUI integrates with a generator, eliminates the need for an ATS, and can provide whole or partial backup. The latest firmware (July 2022) talks about the batteries being recharged, when running from generator, but all the drawings and rest of text show either the generator connected to a critical circuits panel, or a third party ATS used.

I've opened over a dozen cases with SE about the firmware (which usually just get closed as resolved, with apologies that firmware is not available). Last May, I had an email from a support person saying this:



Unfortunately, I have not been able to get an email response from him, after trying to get follow-up status months after that email (maybe he is not there any more). SE current line is that the firmware is available and I should talk to my installer about any system "design" issues.

That is super cool darkskies regarding the API access and the app you wrote. Would you be willing to share details or share the app? Happy to pay.
Does it connect to Homeassistant or some other home automation software (I use Homeseer)?

Also, does the API let you know when the grid power goes out? I've mentioned this before but my hope is that I can write something to automate load shedding when the power goes out (mainly turning off all the heat pumps in the house, and i'll trigger automated shutdown on my main server/NAS).

[soby]

soby the CTs are not necessary if you have a Backup Interface (BUI) with a service line intercept right? If everything is passing through the BUI first where service enters home before the main panel the BUI should be able to measure all loads and production without extra CTs it seems.

The Backup Interface is fancier and has the built-in energy meter capability but that must not be enabled in the inverter settings. If it were, you would see the consumption on the monitoring interface. Can you check the inverter setting to see if there is an energy meter configured?

[darkskies]

chronos432 RE: App...

It's a standalone command line app, written in Python that I've been working on. Eventually, I'll likely post it on GitHub for other's to access. My goals for the app are to A) have a way to tell when my system is down, rather than noticing via the dashboard, days later, and B) be able to see what my savings and ROI would be for the system, given my local energy rates.

If you have any experience with programming or even with Unix commands like "curl", and you can get an API access token from your installer (or have installer access), you can get a lot of info. Here's the latest API documentation: https://knowledge-center.solaredge.c...toring_api.pdf

Keep in mind:

• Each site communicates with SolareEdge, transferring information periodically (I'm not sure if they poll or the sites push data). From the API you can access that information on the solar edge site (essentially, another client, like the dashboard, only with much more info).
• Implication is that often the data from the API call is often delayed 10-20 minutes through this two step process (site -> SE -> my API request), from what I observe. Sometimes up to an hour. Some of the info collected is in 5 min resolution, some in 10 min resolution.
• The API restricts you to 300 calls a day, so you can't check every minute, obviously. In one call though, you can get up to a week's worth of data for some items.
• It would have been much better, if one could directly poll the equipment and bypass the SE site. I don't know how my inverter talks to SolarEdge (haven't been able to monitor the packets)

For those curious...

With my app, I collect status every 10 mins, and I collect energy information daily and store in a simple database. I have commands to configure things, and to enter provider and monthly energy rates (it's specific to my provider - I don't know what other providers have for billing rates/fees).

For (A), when I poll status, if there is a change in state of the inverter, I have configuration to allow both texting and/or emailing based on configuration interval, so I get a heads up. I have a command that show status history (here is from around Christmas, when we had a big storm with lights flickering off multiple times during the day):

INVERTER        AS-OF                   DURATION OP-MODE    STATE
XXXXXD7-F1 11-29-2022 13:16 23d 18:52 ON-GRID MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 08:08 00:01 ON-GRID FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 08:09 00:01 PV/BATTERY MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 08:10 00:01 ON-GRID FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 08:11 00:05 ON-GRID OFF
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 08:16 04:36 ON-GRID MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 12:52 00:04 ON-GRID FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 12:56 00:05 ON-GRID OFF
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 13:01 04:31 ON-GRID MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:32 00:01 PV/BATTERY FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:33 00:00 PV/BATTERY MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:33 00:03 ON-GRID FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:36 00:03 ON-GRID OFF
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:39 00:02 PV/BATTERY FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:41 00:06 PV/BATTERY UNKNOWN
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:47 00:04 PV/BATTERY FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:51 00:05 ON-GRID OFF
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 17:56 00:32 ON-GRID MPPT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 18:28 00:03 PV/BATTERY FAULT
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 18:31 00:05 ON-GRID OFF
XXXXXD7-F1 12-23-2022 18:36 27d 07:40 ON-GRID MPPT

For (B), I have a command that shows energy info by month or billing cycle (here's March monthly):

Screenshot 2023-04-17 at 11.42.32 AM.png

And ROI data (using my provider's rates and calculations). Here's some data...

Screenshot 2023-04-17 at 11.42.05 AM.png

[darkskies]

Just an update on the BackUp Interface and Generator integration. I opened a case with SE, about the observance that with the latest firmware, the release notes don't show the generator fully integrated. They said the firmware should support the generator and that I should contact my installer over any design issue (and marked the case as resolved).

I opened a second case, and said that I wanted to know from SE, when the integration would be complete. They marked the case as a duplicate, and closed it as resolved.

I opened a third case (it takes about a week for them to address each case), saying that they are still not answering my question and that this is not a design issue quoting info from the Install guide. They finally responded with:

Thank you for contacting SolarEdge support, full integration will be out in the near future. We will send out updates when this comes out.

At least they are admitting that it is not integrated yet. Of course, last time I heard "near future", it was about a year for a firmware update. I replied to the, you guessed it, closed case, asking them to check with Engineering to see if there is any rough estimate (couldn't hurt to ask), and reminding them that they did not notify me, or the installer, last time there was an update to firmware (I found out via a case).

I'll keep pestering them about updates...