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  • Sofar hybrid inverter and pylontech batteries

    Hi,
    I've recently had a new installation of a Sofar HYD-5000-ES and a pair of Pylontech US3000 batteries.These are fed by 16 x Longi 305W panels, as well as grid power (230 nominal, but actually 243V where I live).

    http://www.sofarsolar.com/product-de.../HYD%205000-ES
    http://www.pylontech.com.cn/pro_deta...?id=121&cid=23

    I figured out how to set the Sofar onto my home wifi, so that it sends logs to Solarman. Interestingly, you can register with two different Solarman portals and see different presentations of the same data - home.solarman.cn/main.html and http://www.solarmanpv.com/portal/Ter...spx?ac=Private
    The home.solarman.cn has a really nice customisable graph where you can overlay different data sets.

    I have a number of questions I hope people can answer:
    * my battery should be capable of discharging at over 3kW, yet in the evening it only discharges at a few hundred watts, by midnight it's still 50% full!
    * does anyone know what the protocol is that SolarmanPV uses? Their servers listen on tcp 10000, and appear to receive a binary blob.

    thanks for any thoughts.
    Paul

  • #2
    > * my battery should be capable of discharging at over 3kW, yet in the evening it only discharges at a few hundred watts, by midnight it's still 50% full!

    By midnight and at 50%, infers to me that by dawn, batteries would be 0% and shutting down.

    Why do you want to cycle your batteries any deeper ? if it was a rain or cloudy day, you would have no harvest and no battery.

    The deeper the discharges, the faster they will wear out. Forget the 10 or 15 year warranty, the company will be long gone by then.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
      > * my battery should be capable of discharging at over 3kW, yet in the evening it only discharges at a few hundred watts, by midnight it's still 50% full!

      By midnight and at 50%, infers to me that by dawn, batteries would be 0% and shutting down.

      Why do you want to cycle your batteries any deeper ? if it was a rain or cloudy day, you would have no harvest and no battery.

      The deeper the discharges, the faster they will wear out. Forget the 10 or 15 year warranty, the company will be long gone by then.
      Sorry, I should explain. After about 11:30 we're all in bed, and the power consumption drops to just a few hundred W (phone chargers and things on standby), and I've been finding that by 7am the next day we still have 50% charge left, and soon after the batteries start charging again (we're in the UK and sunrise is 5am at the moment)!

      So instead of running off free* energy, we're paying for grid power in the evening. I want to run off battery as much as possible until it hits the programmed limit of 20% reserved charge.

      Screenshot_20190529_000647.png

      * ok, I know it's not strictly free because it wears out the battery.

      Comment


      • #4
        BTW, I expect our batteries to still be useable in 12 years, at which point the cost of replacement will be significantly less, and the entire system will have paid for itself by then, the panels will still have more than half their life left.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by speculatrix View Post

          Sorry, I should explain. After about 11:30 we're all in bed, and the power consumption drops to just a few hundred W (phone chargers and things on standby), and I've been finding that by 7am the next day we still have 50% charge left, and soon after the batteries start charging again (we're in the UK and sunrise is 5am at the moment)!

          So instead of running off free* energy, we're paying for grid power in the evening. I want to run off battery as much as possible until it hits the programmed limit of 20% reserved charge.

          Screenshot_20190529_000647.png

          * ok, I know it's not strictly free because it wears out the battery.
          I assume these batteries are trying to offset your consumption. what is your consumption during this time?
          When is your solar kicking back on in the morning to start recharging?
          Do you have consumption metering to see your actual home consumption?
          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi,
            we average about 750W from 4pm to 11pm, excluding kitchen appliances, which is peak electricity use.

            The PV system came with an Owl Intuition, but I previously used a CurrentCost to track power usage for a long time, so I know we're using a good 5 or 6kWh. The pylontech batteries hold 7.2kWh before the 20% reserve, which brings it down to a bit under 6kWh usable.

            You can see when the solar kicks in and starts charging about 0830 at the moment as the battery charge starts to rise.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
              Hi,
              we average about 750W from 4pm to 11pm, excluding kitchen appliances, which is peak electricity use.

              The PV system came with an Owl Intuition, but I previously used a CurrentCost to track power usage for a long time, so I know we're using a good 5 or 6kWh. The pylontech batteries hold 7.2kWh before the 20% reserve, which brings it down to a bit under 6kWh usable.

              You can see when the solar kicks in and starts charging about 0830 at the moment as the battery charge starts to rise.
              750w is a generalization for consumption but you have an exact graph with time plot for the battery here.
              These should be set up to offset your consumption with some meter and likely has a way to present a consumption graph as well.

              As for the charging, it looks like it starts charging around 6:30 am from the graph.

              You seem to be questioning why there is still a charge on the batteries in the morning which SHOULD be because the system is working correctly and offsetting only what you used.
              Do you have a graph or something showing that you were using more than the battery put out?
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

              Comment


              • #8
                I've grabbed a graph from Owl Intuition which shows power draw for part of yesterday. It measures the output of the inverter, and the consumption, and estimates grid import or export from those.
                Screenshot from 2019-05-29 16-03-43.x.png

                I've got an iBoost with Buddy, which measures grid export or import, but there's no data port to capture the readings, and it seems quite inaccurate.

                I've tried connecting my CurrentCost to different cables to confirm what I see on the Owl and iBoost, which is how I know the iBoost is inaccurate.

                thanks
                Paul

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
                  BTW, I expect our batteries to still be useable in 12 years, at which point the cost of replacement will be significantly less, and the entire system will have paid for itself by then, the panels will still have more than half their life left.
                  So your expectations is that you will get more than 4000 cycles out of a battery system that has been drained 50% each cycle?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                    So your expectations is that you will get more than 4000 cycles out of a battery system that has been drained 50% each cycle?
                    check the link I posted to the product - "ensures more than 6000 cycles with 90% DoD" - 6000 cycles is nearly 16.5 years.

                    I think it's reasonable to be able to drain it 80% every day and still have 80% or better performance, which is 3650 cycles!

                    If the battery is exhausted by midnight, I want to set things up to get an additional late night top-up from really cheap electricity, about 1.5kWh for breakfast period.

                    I pay 15.5/kWh at peak, but could pay 5/kWh at cheapest time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by speculatrix View Post

                      check the link I posted to the product - "ensures more than 6000 cycles with 90% DoD" - 6000 cycles is nearly 16.5 years.

                      I think it's reasonable to be able to drain it 80% every day and still have 80% or better performance, which is 3650 cycles!

                      If the battery is exhausted by midnight, I want to set things up to get an additional late night top-up from really cheap electricity, about 1.5kWh for breakfast period.

                      I pay 15.5/kWh at peak, but could pay 5/kWh at cheapest time.
                      I saw that claim by the battery system mfg. What I would like you to understand is that some claims are not worth the paper they are written on or shown on a webpage.

                      Maybe I am wrong or being a doubting Thomas but any battery chemistry being able to go > 80% DOD on every cycle and last 6000 cycles is pretty high in expectations.

                      I also think the expense of a battery will still cost more to generate a kWh then to purchase it for 15.5 cents/kWh. So based on the spec of 3.2kWh for each cycle and 6000 cycles that comes to 19200kWh. At 15.5cents/kWh that calculates to just under $3000. What did that pylontech system cost you?

                      Get back to us in 5 years and tell us how it is working for you.
                      Last edited by SunEagle; 05-29-2019, 01:48 PM. Reason: spelling

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
                        I've grabbed a graph from Owl Intuition which shows power draw for part of yesterday. It measures the output of the inverter, and the consumption, and estimates grid import or export from those.
                        Screenshot from 2019-05-29 16-03-43.x.png

                        I've got an iBoost with Buddy, which measures grid export or import, but there's no data port to capture the readings, and it seems quite inaccurate.

                        I've tried connecting my CurrentCost to different cables to confirm what I see on the Owl and iBoost, which is how I know the iBoost is inaccurate.

                        thanks
                        Paul
                        This graph is wrong.
                        it is showing your imported power from grid increasing 1 for 1 with your generation. That is clearly wrong.

                        You should have a device measuring your NET at the grid side and another measuring your generation.
                        The sum of the two is your consumption.
                        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                          I also think the expense of a battery will still cost more to generate a kWh then to purchase it for 15.5 cents/kWh. So based on the spec of 3.2kWh for each cycle and 6000 cycles that comes to 19200kWh. At 15.5cents/kWh that calculates to just under $3000. What did that pylontech system cost you?

                          Get back to us in 5 years and tell us how it is working for you.
                          Actually, my costs are in UK pounds and pence, but it's all relative. My pylontech battery packs came in at roughly 3000, for roughly useable 6kWh capacity.


                          IF I got, and I know it's a big IF, a full 6000 charge cycles, the value would be
                          6 kWh/cycle x 0.15 x 6000 = 5400

                          but if I only get ten years, 3650 cycles, that gives 3285

                          if I only just break even but in doing so benefit the environment in a useful way, I'm happy.
                          Last edited by speculatrix; 05-30-2019, 03:04 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                            This graph is wrong.
                            it is showing your imported power from grid increasing 1 for 1 with your generation. That is clearly wrong.
                            yes, this would be the case if the inverter is not sensing the grid import correctly and trying to minimise it.

                            You should have a device measuring your NET at the grid side and another measuring your generation.
                            The sum of the two is your consumption.
                            The Owl can only measure the inverter output (including battery) and consumption. I think it therefore assumes that if the inverter is producing more than consumption, the difference is exported. It doesn't report negative export, i.e. import.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by speculatrix View Post

                              yes, this would be the case if the inverter is not sensing the grid import correctly and trying to minimise it.
                              the graph looks like a miss configured monitoring system


                              Originally posted by speculatrix View Post
                              The Owl can only measure the inverter output (including battery) and consumption. I think it therefore assumes that if the inverter is producing more than consumption, the difference is exported. It doesn't report negative export, i.e. import.
                              Your inverter has to sense the grid import in order to try to minimise it. Does the inverter NOT have any monitoring on this?
                              The Owl does not seem to be capable of reporting correctly.

                              You need an accurate way to monitor what is going on and to insure that things are configured correctly and working correctly.
                              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                              Comment

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