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Samsung Smartthings/ Zwave adding A/C when battery is full....Is this possible ?

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  • Samsung Smartthings/ Zwave adding A/C when battery is full....Is this possible ?

    Can the grid-tired hybrid inverters be set to send 100% extra power to batteries or avoid net metering?
    Last edited by Superman_006; 01-30-2019, 12:43 AM.
    SMA Sunnyboy 3000TL-US, 9 REC320NP, Sense Solar

  • #2
    In a nutshell, usually yes, to some extent.

    I'm not sure which grid tied inverters or battery systems you are thinking of. But generally modern lithium ion energy storage solutions (Tesla, LG, etc.) usually have a programatic feature to control when they charge, store, and release their energy to optimize TOU applications. But, the amount of communication / coordination between the PV Inverter Solution and the Energy Storage solution varies widely. For example, I believe the SE StoreEdge solution is highly programmable in this regard, but a single vendor makes both pieces (save for the batteries). A lot of newer storage solutions are tending to be separate (usually different vendor) almost independent solutions so the degree of coordination and interoperability may be limited / non-existent.

    For example, some systems may communicate via TCP/IP, others RS-485, some may just be simple "schedules" in which energy storage systems are programmed to charge during peak sun hours, or overnight at offpeak rates, and discharge in the afternoon/evening to limit the impact of TOU pricing.

    As a general rule of thumb:
    1) Grid-Tie energy storage is not usually cost effective yet save for specific, limited applications.
    2) Once batteries are full, they cannot store any more energy
    3) Once batteries are "empty" there is little or no blackout protection
    2) Solar itself is expensive so unless your TOU rates are very high, or you are able to claim other incentives (Federal, State, PoCo), be sure to carefully examine your ROI to see in the investment makes sense. The first step is to understand your annual MWh/yr, and the cost of kWh from your PoCo (generation and transmission).

    Do you have a specific application in mind?

    For example, residential solar in California, with abusive TOU rates, good sun, and limited solar / storage capacity needs?

    So you have specific equipment in mind? Optimizer, Microinverter, string?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Superman_006 View Post
      Can the grid-tired hybrid inverters be set to send 100% extra power to batteries or avoid net metering?
      yes but this is only useful in a few places with OUT net metering. If you have net metering then USE it.

      It is most commonly used in Hawaii if you were not able to get a net metering contract.
      OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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      • #4
        Originally posted by JSchnee21 View Post
        In a nutshell, usually yes, to some extent.

        I'm not sure which grid tied inverters or battery systems you are thinking of. But generally modern lithium ion energy storage solutions (Tesla, LG, etc.) usually have a programatic feature to control when they charge, store, and release their energy to optimize TOU applications. But, the amount of communication / coordination between the PV Inverter Solution and the Energy Storage solution varies widely. For example, I believe the SE StoreEdge solution is highly programmable in this regard, but a single vendor makes both pieces (save for the batteries). A lot of newer storage solutions are tending to be separate (usually different vendor) almost independent solutions so the degree of coordination and interoperability may be limited / non-existent.

        For example, some systems may communicate via TCP/IP, others RS-485, some may just be simple "schedules" in which energy storage systems are programmed to charge during peak sun hours, or overnight at offpeak rates, and discharge in the afternoon/evening to limit the impact of TOU pricing.

        As a general rule of thumb:
        1) Grid-Tie energy storage is not usually cost effective yet save for specific, limited applications.
        2) Once batteries are full, they cannot store any more energy
        3) Once batteries are "empty" there is little or no blackout protection
        2) Solar itself is expensive so unless your TOU rates are very high, or you are able to claim other incentives (Federal, State, PoCo), be sure to carefully examine your ROI to see in the investment makes sense. The first step is to understand your annual MWh/yr, and the cost of kWh from your PoCo (generation and transmission).

        Do you have a specific application in mind?

        For example, residential solar in California, with abusive TOU rates, good sun, and limited solar / storage capacity needs?

        So you have specific equipment in mind? Optimizer, Microinverter, string?
        This post originally had a bunch of though process of an off grid inverter that was using several low-draw/ constant pull into a ATS that was controlled by a zwave sensor with Samsung's smart things to automatically switch circuits from inverter to grid depending on set parameters .... it doesn't seem that there is any scenario where a real battery bank would be cost effective since its odd that my power goes down for any real period of time and looking at the selection of "off grid inverters" not sure where to draw the line of which one is going to be a heater and would I hook my TV and fridge to that. I know that was yesterday.

        Today Im looking at a grid tie inverters

        SMA Sunny boy ones that have some sort of cloud monitoring is what Im currently stuck on. I am trying to figure out if SMA has an open API. It seriously looks like some of these models will work with 50-600 VDC on them.

        Ive read thru my local power company's (AEP- WV)...... "guide for the interconnection of distributed resources" . Sounds like something I can do. This guide has got some terminology that im not familiar with and this includes things like a gas generator info and 3-phase stuff in the middle of some of it. Sounds like I apply for a permit thru AEP, in the application, I have to draw a sketch of my plan, include the model number of any IEEE 1547 certified inverter. What's throwing me off is where they are like the disconnect has to be 3 phase or momentary paralleling systems has to have a make-before-break automatic transfer scheme. Its also like multiple people wrote it and the 1st person calls it a "solar generator" and never mentions anything about a generator. The 2nd person calls it a "Photovoltaic energy supply" and then throws in a requirement (I think) for a gas/NG/LP generator and just says "generator" .

        Sounds like only the AC disconnect has to be outside, but I am unsure if it is supposed to be fused or not fused. Not sure if a AC PV disconnect is different from a normal AC disconnect. But they ones that have the PV warning stickers on them are 5X as much.

        CUT AND PASTE...

        "The aggregate generation capacity, including the capacity of the
        Project, must be 15% or less than the peak load on the smallest portion of the
        primary distribution circuit that could remain connected after operation of
        any sectionalizing devices.

        The point of common coupling must be on a radial circuit."


        My current plan is looking like single phase- 30amp 3 fused disconnect from a "backfeed" 240v breaker in my main box (200 amp).....which would be connecting a New Sunny Boy SB3000TL-US-22 which has a DC disconnect on it, built in Wi-Fi and a 1500w outlet that would work with no power during sun hours. I've got a hip-roof with architectural shingles that the south end is correct pitch/ angle and azimuth and for my location with no shading but very concerned about panel mounting. Some of the photos I've seen of "profession installs" and some of the DIY guides that just screw the clamps to the shingles then put some liquid nail around has me going .....OMFG. Even the quick PV track system which has some flashing that goes under the row above it looks like your asking for leaks since its an aluminum block on an aluminum piece of flashing with a rubber seal on top of it. I'm considering using roof jacks and mounting rails on them and using a service mast to actually go thru the roof which I haven't seen any photos of anyone doing this yet.
        Last edited by Superman_006; 01-30-2019, 11:21 PM.
        SMA Sunnyboy 3000TL-US, 9 REC320NP, Sense Solar

        Comment


        • #5
          As a general rule hybrid inverter systems can only throttle their output to avoid export in two situations:
          1. The entire connection to POCO (service) goes through a transfer switch inside the inverter, so that it can directly monitor current flow to and from POCO, or
          2. The system has a current transformer mounted on the POCO connections and the current transformer output is connected to a port on the inverter designed to accept that information.
          SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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