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  • Getting a system installed, ready for future battery backup

    Sorry about going off topic here, but even though I've been a long time lurker, for the life of me I can't figure out how to start a new post on solarpaneltalk

    Mod note: Sorry about that, the admins can be busy at times but you should be approved shortly. In the meantime I've moved this to its own topic --Steve

    I'm in the process of getting a solar system installed that is suppose to be ready for future battery backup. Initially the installer was planning to put in a StorEdge inverter, but then went with the HD Wave SE7600H. He said the HD Wave would be upgradeable to battery backup this summer via firmware upgrade and that this was a better inverter. I can't seem to find any info online to back this up. Had anyone else heard of this?
    Last edited by sdold; 03-19-2018, 01:34 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Spectrum1c View Post
    I'm in the process of getting a solar system installed that is suppose to be ready for future battery backup. Initially the installer was planning to put in a StorEdge inverter, but then went with the HD Wave SE7600H. He said the HD Wave would be upgradeable to battery backup this summer via firmware upgrade and that this was a better inverter. I can't seem to find any info online to back this up. Had anyone else heard of this?
    The StorEdge is based on the older SE7600A
    There will likely be a new StorEdge based on the SE7600H soon.
    It would need more than firmware though.
    The SE7600A is also upgradeable to StorEdge initially thought to be a firmware upgrade and switch out of some parts but SolarEdge decided to do it as an inverter swap instead with credit for the old inverter. It is not clear yet how the new upgrade process will go but either way you should get credit for the SE7600H.

    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #3
      That makes sense. Appreciate the reply ButchDeal and thank you Steve for moving my post

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

        The StorEdge is based on the older SE7600A
        There will likely be a new StorEdge based on the SE7600H soon.
        It would need more than firmware though.
        The SE7600A is also upgradeable to StorEdge initially thought to be a firmware upgrade and switch out of some parts but SolarEdge decided to do it as an inverter swap instead with credit for the old inverter. It is not clear yet how the new upgrade process will go but either way you should get credit for the SE7600H.
        ButchDeal, any idea on when an updated version of the StorEdge based on HD Wave will be available? I trying to decide if we should postpone an install in order to wait for it.

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        • #5
          Why on earth would you want battery backup for?
          MSEE, PE

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            Why on earth would you want battery backup for?
            California currently has a rebate on battery storage ($0.40 /kWh) through the SGIP program. If you install it the same time as solar and meet certain conditions, you can also double up on the 30% federal tax credit. For us, on the EV metering plan, our PEAK electricity from the grid costs $0.47/kWh between 2PM and 9PM. Battery stored energy can be used to offset the peak costs during those 7 hours as power from PV wanes down. After rebates and tax credits, its a ~$2k-$3k adder on top of the regular PV install.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              Why on earth would you want battery backup for?
              Blackouts. Quite an issue here in the back county.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mervinj7 View Post

                California currently has a rebate on battery storage ($0.40 /kWh) through the SGIP program. If you install it the same time as solar and meet certain conditions, you can also double up on the 30% federal tax credit. For us, on the EV metering plan, our PEAK electricity from the grid costs $0.47/kWh between 2PM and 9PM. Battery stored energy can be used to offset the peak costs during those 7 hours as power from PV wanes down. After rebates and tax credits, its a ~$2k-$3k adder on top of the regular PV install.
                Is there anything that kicks in after 4 years (1,500 cycles), to pay for a new battery? Getting the rebate for a battery is nice, if you want to steal from the other rate payers (or whomever is doling out the bucks), but when (and there is no if, it's when) the battery dies, that's going to be a couple grand to replace it.
                (PS a site admin has to release your posts, mod's can't)

                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                  Why on earth would you want battery backup for?
                  Hopefully, this won't post twice. In CA, there is a rebate program for home storage that's priced at $0.40 kWh (up to 10 kWh). As an example, a LG Chem RES10H qualifies for a $3920 SGIP rebate. In addition, if you install with a PV system and meet certain charge source/cycle requirements, it qualifies for the 30% federal tax credit on the installation cost after SGIP rebate or in this case another $1500 credit. That reduces the out of pocket installed cost for a RES10H roughly to ~$2k-$3k.

                  If you have an EV rate plan with PG&E, your peak cost for electricity from the grid is priced at $0.47/kWh from 2PM-9PM. The general idea is that you would use the stored battery power during those 7 hours to replace peak grid current costs as your generated solar power winds down. If you fully cycle the battery 180 times a year, you can break even on the added battery costs after just 3 years into the 10 year expected lifespan of the battery.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                    Blackouts. Quite an issue here in the back county.
                    That is what they make generators for. A whole lot less expensive, no rewiring your home, and a generator can run everything in your home for weeks. Either way even battery backup requires a genny for extended outages.

                    MSEE, PE

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                      That is what they make generators for. A whole lot less expensive, no rewiring your home, and a generator can run everything in your home for weeks. Either way even battery backup requires a genny for extended outages.
                      Generators make terrible UPSes.

                      Depends on what he wants. If he wants uninterrupted power and time to shut his equipment down if the blackout goes long? UPS functionality is the way to go, whether it's a central battery or a plug-in UPS. If he wants to run for days, and doesn't care about power interruptions? Generators make more sense.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
                        Generators make terrible UPSes.

                        Depends on what he wants. If he wants uninterrupted power and time to shut his equipment down if the blackout goes long? UPS functionality is the way to go, whether it's a central battery or a plug-in UPS. If he wants to run for days, and doesn't care about power interruptions? Generators make more sense.
                        I install and design UPS systems for a living. They are designed to support load for 15 to 30 minutes to give the generators enough time to come on line and take over for mission critical applications that cannot tolerate any interruptions.

                        MSEE, PE

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                          Is there anything that kicks in after 4 years (1,500 cycles), to pay for a new battery? Getting the rebate for a battery is nice, if you want to steal from the other rate payers (or whomever is doling out the bucks), but when (and there is no if, it's when) the battery dies, that's going to be a couple grand to replace it.
                          (PS a site admin has to release your posts, mod's can't)
                          The LG battery warranty is for 10 years with a guarantee of 60% of nominal energy left. I'm also not sure why you think getting a solar rebate is "stealing" from other customers. The biggest reason to provide incentives for energy storage in addition to energy generation is to stabilize the grid. The demand for grid power peaks right in the late evening, as power generation from a PV system wanes down. With the EV Rate we are on, our peak rate is between 2PM-9PM at $0.45/kWh. The purpose of the battery is not for backup but to provide power during the expensive peak time and to reduce steepness of the power load ramp up to the utility.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mervinj7 View Post
                            I'm also not sure why you think getting a solar rebate is "stealing" from other customers.
                            Well, if it's $$ coming from a gov., where do you think the $$ come from ? The money fairy ? It's coming from taxpayers, a lot of whom do not have the financial wherewithal to throw high initial cost PV at self inflicted high electric bills.

                            Since at least part of the demand imbalance you write of is due to hard to regulate distributed generation (and a large share of that usually due to residential sized PV), maybe those causing the difficulties you mention, of which many of us are pretty much aware, ought to be picking up the tab for part of the solution, not being subsidized for creating it.

                            More of politicians manipulating social policy via the tax code.

                            Besides, rebates and subsidies are not good for the health of the solar industry. Such things hold up the progress of maturation similar to parents who create what amount to feral house pets by never allowing the precious fruit of their loins to grow up.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                              Well, if it's $$ coming from a gov., where do you think the $$ come from ? The money fairy ? It's coming from taxpayers, a lot of whom do not have the financial wherewithal to throw high initial cost PV at self inflicted high electric bills.
                              That's true of many things. Roads, schools, air traffic control, oil companies, farming, the VA, nuclear power plants etc all see $$ from taxpayers routed to special interest groups. Government being government they overdo it and then massively f*ck up the implementation of said subsidies.

                              But if that's "stealing", then every single person in the US who uses roads, or takes advantage of our airspace system, or uses power from a nuclear power plant, or puts gas in their car, or goes to a VA hospital, is "stealing" as well.



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