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UK specific questions very old house, grid with backup, and meters, FITs MCS etc

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  • UK specific questions very old house, grid with backup, and meters, FITs MCS etc

    Hi all.

    Hoping some people especially Brits can chip in with advice .

    Deep breath...

    I live in the UK and run a small business from my remote rural family home (in outbuildings) so I have an office and storage barn etc , and also a tea room with fridge/freezer and washing machine etc. It is a farm type of place but only has a domestic type electricity account/ tariff.

    As I like tinkering and want to reduce fossil fuel usage I wanted to get some solar PV. I also would like battery backup as I do get power cuts maybe once or twice a year, sometimes lasting a day or more.

    I can't fit any panels to the house as it is an old listed building so not allowed to bolt stuff to it, and also to get a Government Feed In Tariff, the building has to have a 'EPC' rating. It has no chance of getting the higher rate of D, becuase the house is from literally the 1600s, so timber framed, wattle and daub, single glazed windows, and a 20+ year old LPG/propane central heating boiler.

    So i want to mount panels on one of my more modern outbuildings etc (or on the ground) Maybe I can still grid tie to the house/outbuildings?


    I am currently using a DIY installed off grid system which comprises
    9 x 250W mono panels (2250W)
    Outback FM80 charge controller
    300Ah 48V gel battery bank. (14kwh)
    2700W UPS (as an inverter)

    This is only connected to my outbuildings (i physically swap over one of those big 16A blue caravan type plugs)

    My daytime loads are the CCTV system, and office computer, plus a few intermittent loads such as vacuum cleaner , toilet maccerator etc. The batteries then run everything for the evening and night time loads (mostly same as daytime with some lights added)

    This actually works reasonably well keeping the large loads such as air compressor on the normal grid and I have fitted LED bulbs etc.

    During the summer days I find I am not using all of the available solar power, the Charge controller charges my battery pack then my load is only about 300 watts so it would be nice to do something useful with the rest and put it back into the mains so it will help run the fridge and freezer in the house and any other daytime loads such as central heating pump and appliances.

    So can I buy and install a grid tie inverter? Would it have to be installed by an MCS approved installer? Will they be happy to connect my existing panels to it?

    Am I right in saying grid tie inverters have much higher string voltages , My current strings are only 114vp but I can always rewire them but that would then mean I can't use them to generate any power to my batteries, so I'd have to a: have another set of panels altogether, or b: do they make a grid tie inverter that can also provide off grid power during a power cut (so i could power my things and charge the batteries with a mains battery charger)

    Maybe I would have to just rely on battery power and the solar go to waste in a power cut situation?

    Even if I can't get a feed in tariff at all, can I still feed into the grid so the house can use some of the solar power and if the solar power is equal to the amount being consumed, the meter will stop?

    The house has a fairly modern electronic meter. If I am feeding into the grid, will this just stop, or will it count backwards or will it in fact.. count forwards, being indiscriminate of the direction of the power?

    Any thoughts welcome! Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Hello Will
    What you have at the moment in there is a DIY off grid system . Unfortunately nothing of that can be used in a MCS approved grid tied. If you want to move forward and see if you are allowed to have a grid system you should contact your local planning office as your property has a listed building those rules may apply to the rest of the outbuildings . Once there is a single listed building within a property the outbuildings could be affected by certain restrictions; you will need to find that out from your local council.
    Grid tied inverters are recognised only if installed by MCS approved as they need to register it when goes life and the grid will acknowledge its generation. Do not attempt to install one and never ever back feed to your circuits . Your meter will register only one way(digital landis type) and any power you back feed it will read as consumption and you will have a massive bill. The proper grid tied once have a generation meter and a lot of commissioning goes on between the installer and grid company so they will know you are generating.
    If you get the green for a 4kw install then you could go for a hybrid system but , its pricey. A average 4kw install now fetches 6k in south east and east Anglia. A hybrid double that with a 5kw reserve bank.
    What I would do make the best of what you have at the moment and wait for the government changes this autumn. Osborne is doing massive cuts in public sector and pump more into renewables. There is hope that FIT could go back to 40p as initially started and then will be more economically viable to go grid tied. At the moment the FIT is 14p and ofgem will review this once they get the go from the gov.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks, call me cynical but I can't ever see the FIT increasing, I read only today that they are reducing subsidies for solar and pumping billions into Nuclear. Not only that, the government are of course in bed with the oil and gas industry (hence their huge push for fracking here) , too many brown envelopes being passed around for the solar to get any more subsidy, hasn't the tariff just gone DOWN ?

      Surely my panels if nothing else are ok for MCS approved install, I don't have to have purchased them from the mcs installer do I? They could presumably come and plug them in!

      So another question, is it a prequisite to have planning permission for a grid tied solar system? Never bothered with planning for anything here and never had any problems, we are in the middle of nowhere. Theres a mile of 11KV overhead cable to the house and it has its own transformer in the garden. Panels will be out of sight anyway (i already have panels working on my off-grid setup anyway)

      Comment


      • #4
        You may supply the panels but the installer will only use them if found unused prior install and sealed in the supplier packaging . Otherwise he can not guarantee the system (mcs requirement). Not knowing the history on a used item it will not make it on a grid system .
        I wish you luck to find a installer using your existing panels and guarantee the system.
        Also a survey before the install may reveal additional load and structural calculation needed for said roof witch may not be fit unless upgrades are done and have to be approved. At the current FIT rate if your electrical bill is up to £700/year your payback could be as long as 10years.
        Hve a look at REA renewable energy association and you will find a lot of relevant info regarding domestic installs in rural areas and restrictions on listed buildings.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with other poster on here (Will-UK) that the prospect of the UK Feed-In Tariff increasing any time soon, at least for the majority of large scale PV Solar projects, is at best slim. The same is probably the case in most nations where ecological and renewable energy awareness is simply not of a high enough priority to dictate change.

          The real challenge faces large scale PV Solar projects, including industrial solar water heating solutions, where by definition the nature of the investment is long-term. Legislative uncertainty against that long-term financial commitment simply makes the alternative energy proposition less viable. It is a shame as there is a significant amount of data backed evidence suggesting that there are vacarious benefits to PV Solar and FIT regimes in the UK:
          Last edited by Mike90250; 01-31-2018, 01:59 PM.

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