recommends for new system, shade structure mount, crystalline, micro-inverter

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  • Lifespeed
    Junior Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 5

    #1

    recommends for new system, shade structure mount, crystalline, micro-inverter

    I am considering installing a new solar panel system. Available space is about 230 SF, although this is negotiable and could be increased. I want to make a patio shade structure do double duty, the advantage being it receives more sunlight and the mounting angle could be more favorable than the house roof. Distance to the electrical panel is about 40 feet. My monthly useage in the peak of summer air conditioning is about 800 - 900 KWh. I don't currently have an electric car, but this could change in the next 3 - 5 years.

    My understanding is that crystalline semiconductor panels are the highest performing and have a long life, although at a cost premium. I am also interested in the micro-inverters at point of generation. One corner of my proposed installation site would receive shading in the morning, although it will be fully in the sun from 10 AM to 6 PM or later. Also, because of the non-roof-mount flexibility afforded, I would like to consider tracking system mounting, and whether this is cost-effective for the 25 - 30% increase in output.

    I am looking for recommendations of leaders in technology, quality and reliability for the panels, inverters, associated equipment and installation methods. I am an electrical engineer, so do have some understanding of the technology, but not practical experience with it.

    Also, I want to do this in a cost effective manner which means DIY with the help of a friend who is an electrical contractor. We have already significantly upgraded and repaired my my 1969 home electrically, and in other ways, but would like to learn more before proceeding to undertake this project.

    Thanks for the advice,

    Lifespeed
  • Naptown
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2011
    • 6880

    #2
    Consider the Sanyo Bifacial module. If mounted on an open structure that has some light coming from the back it may work out very well for you.
    However this will be a shade structure and not a water tight roof.
    I do not believe that microinverters are an option with this module however but you can check the Enphase compatibility list easily found with a google search.
    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

    [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

    [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

    Comment

    • Lifespeed
      Junior Member
      • Jul 2012
      • 5

      #3
      electricity costs

      I guess I should add that I pay $0.21 per KWh in the summer and $0.14 per KWh in the winter, and I do believe we have net metering here in N. California.

      Good link to the Sanyo panels, interesting choice for a shade structure. Should still allow some light underneath, which is nice. Where can I find pricing for these panels?

      Comment

      • Naptown
        Solar Fanatic
        • Feb 2011
        • 6880

        #4
        these are not cheap but a google search will show something up.
        NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

        [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

        [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

        [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

        Comment

        • SoCalsolar
          Solar Fanatic
          • Jun 2012
          • 331

          #5
          there are other translucent

          There are other less expensive translucent panels out there too. One I can think of off the top of my head is the Lumos lsx with a clear back sheet. It is frame-less and has kind of a distinct look to it.

          Comment

          • Lifespeed
            Junior Member
            • Jul 2012
            • 5

            #6
            Thanks guys, these are the kinds of references I need as I start to investigate. I notice the Lumos panels are markedly less efficient than the Sanyo HIT, which appear to be designed using an innovative semiconductor process.

            Pricing has been alluded to, but I am having a difficult time getting hard numbers. It seems all they (installers) want to do is make an appointment to give you a bid for installation of a complete system. Now, at some point this would be appropriate. But to make initial decisions I really just need to know what I can expect to pay, per panel, for Lumos vs Sanyo vs whatever. This basic pricing info appears hard to come by.

            I don't expect to pay the installer to upgrade the sub panel in my home, increase wire gauge out to the PG&E connect in the street, or run the heavy gauge wire to the subpanel for the installation. This is all basic electrical work I expect myself and an electrician will take care of beforehand.

            Edit: found pricing of $324/panel in quantity for the LSX 180-72M-C, although I think for compatibility with Enphase micro-inverter a 60 cell panel is required, which would be the LSX 250 model. The sanyo panels vary from $600 to nearly $1000 per panel with the bi-facial panels being the most expensive. I do have concrete below the proposed solar awning location, which would reflect and produce more power given the Sanyo double-sided panel, possibly allowing a few less panels given the efficiency and double-sided advantage of the Sanyo. But still very expensive.

            Comment

            • Naptown
              Solar Fanatic
              • Feb 2011
              • 6880

              #7
              I found the Bifacial's at Wholesale solar.
              Be prepared to be shocked as these are over $4.00 a watt.
              NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

              [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

              [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

              [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

              Comment

              • SoCalsolar
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jun 2012
                • 331

                #8
                I would recommend

                I would recommend doing all prep work prior to talking with or getting bids from installers. The days where an installer could go into a home educate the customer on solar then sell them a system are over in CA. The educators are being driven out of business by the installers that sell, close and know how to run a business. The education seems to be taking place on the net and not in the home. Is this always the case? Of course not there are the engineer types who have pertinent questions and want understanding. They are however in the minority and solar is becoming a commodity where price rules. I'm curious if other solar professionals not in CA have noticed thus trend or even agree with me. But as for your situation do your research here and other places have a ballpark in mind call the installer sit through an hour or so of how high PG&E prices are increasing etc etc. Then call a couple other installers let them know you have a quote for a cash deal and you are signing next Wednesday and get a few other prices. If the first price stands up go with that guy if the others seem better go with that guy. The average install for PG&E in 2012 costs $5.83 a DC watt for a 5kW system $5.50 for a 6kW system. Oh and vest the company before agreeing to any thing there are still plenty of crumby installers out there.

                Comment

                • Lifespeed
                  Junior Member
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 5

                  #9
                  Originally posted by SoCalsolar
                  I would recommend doing all prep work prior to talking with or getting bids from installers . . .
                  I kind of figured this was the case, so that is why I am here. It seemed clear to me that understanding of the technical details and trade-offs between technologies was not going to come from a quote from a salesman. Thanks for the advice and ball-park estimates of competitive installed prices.

                  As far as the electrical work ahead of time, I think I still need a bit more understanding, ie: location of the connection to my house electrical. Is it at the (upgraded from 100A to 200A) panel simply through a breaker as I won't be near 120% of capacity? Before the panel? Before the main panel 200A breaker utilizing the solar sub-panel as protection? I imagine this is pretty straightforward stuff dictated by electrical code and best practices, I'm just not that familiar with it. My electrical contractor is very good, but has not done solar so is not familiar with these details either.

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