PowerJack grid tied inverters, worth a damn?

[Mike90250]

You sound like you are the king of being AGAINST solar. Don't these cells last 20-30 years when denied oxygen? I still do not understand?

The oxygen in the air eats out the metal (aluminun) coating (the invisible front metal that collects the power from the entire surface of the cell) and moisture (water vapor) gets in there and then Galvanic Action takes care of the rest. Very few things block water vapor, the DOW resin mentioned earlier makes no mention of it's moisture resistance. That's notable. Tedlar does have a printed spec for water vapor resistance. (it's very good, and what most panels use on the backside) Plexiglass, polycarbonate, epoxys, paint, silicon sealer, wood, all leak lots of water vapor. Glass and metals don't.


We are trying to make you aware of the issues we are knowlaable about, so that a year down the road, you don't talk about solar being a BS rip-off and you lost a lot of $$

How far is it, to get power to your shop ? Maybe it's time to work up a spreadsheet, and put in:
2 generators (one to run, one to be broken)
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery
Small generator, inverter/charger, small battery, Solar PV, charge controller.
Cost of materals & labor to pull power to shop and $1 daily for power

A generator can keep a battery charged, and run tools at the same time.
An inverter has to be large enough to supply a tool motor starting surge. That's going to cost.

We're not saying it can't be done, my shop/house was about $80K away from street side power, and now it's got $75K of solar gear there for all the normal stuff. Welder, well pump, house, saws, kitchen and laundry..... But it's not cheap. (but I'm "sticking it to the man").

[KillerWatts]

No not really an dit woul dtake a lot of batteries and more equipment to make it work. Don't think you wan to build a thousand watt panel for a couple of hours of cool air and buy a 500 pound battery.

No, the whole battery thing sounds like I big pain in the a$$.

[Sunking]

yeah, just on when the sun shines is what I am after. Do they make DC window shakers? If so where is a good source I might try? Thanks again!

No not really an dit woul dtake a lot of batteries and more equipment to make it work. Don't think you wan to build a thousand watt panel for a couple of hours of cool air and buy a 500 pound battery.

[KillerWatts]

Your judgement on this one is good. Batteries would be a major expense on top of what you already have, and with an even worse chance of ever getting any return. Not really more dangerous than the plug-and-play, but a whole bunch of new problems to learn about.

You could either cut your losses by not investing time into construction of panels or else use them to directly power something with DC just when the sun is shining.
Or you could repackage them one or two cells each as starter solar experimentation kits and sell them.

The other idea in ok but I would just give them to my kids friends to mess with. How hard would it be to put something together that would allow a kid to charge their phone?

[Mike90250]

Would it be possible to run a 120v leg thru a blocking diode and then to the wall plug that the PowerJack (or some other inverter) and air conditioner are plugged in to? Then I would have current for the inverter to sense and thefor function, but in the event of an outage it would be a second line of defense against back-feeding the lines?

AC don't work that way

[KillerWatts]

Your judgement on this one is good. Batteries would be a major expense on top of what you already have, and with an even worse chance of ever getting any return. Not really more dangerous than the plug-and-play, but a whole bunch of new problems to learn about.

You could either cut your losses by not investing time into construction of panels or else use them to directly power something with DC just when the sun is shining.
Or you could repackage them one or two cells each as starter solar experimentation kits and sell them.

yeah, just on when the sun shines is what I am after. Do they make DC window shakers? If so where is a good source I might try? Thanks again!

[inetdog]

ohhhh yeah... well it shuts down if it doesn't sense AC. So instead of the plug and play rout would I do better with batteries? Now THAT sounds like an expensive pain in the dangerous ass to me.

Your judgement on this one is good. Batteries would be a major expense on top of what you already have, and with an even worse chance of ever getting any return. Not really more dangerous than the plug-and-play, but a whole bunch of new problems to learn about.

You could either cut your losses by not investing time into construction of panels or else use them to directly power something with DC just when the sun is shining.
Or you could repackage them one or two cells each as starter solar experimentation kits and sell them.

[KillerWatts]

Maybe, maybe not. If you spend $1000 on the materials and spend 200 hours building it and it only generates $100 worth of power before it fails.... Well all I can say is you really stuck it to the Man at the Power Company. That man is you with a $900 loss and a lot of time wasted learning the hard way. If your time is worth $10/hours then what?

True, but IF it does NOT fail, and runs year after flawless year, THEN....I will have still lost my ass on the deal. lol! Oh well, it will not be the first (or last) time a poor choice has cost me a little extra time and money. So I have everything but the inverter, gota build something to keep from being a total loss so how should I run my air safely?

[Sunking]

Yeah, I do wish I would have got less DIY stuff to play around with. And no doubt it will be the last. But SOME free power has got to be better than none right?

Maybe, maybe not. If you spend $1000 on the materials and spend 200 hours building it and it only generates $100 worth of power before it fails.... Well all I can say is you really stuck it to the Man at the Power Company. That man is you with a $900 loss and a lot of time wasted learning the hard way. If your time is worth $10/hours then what?

[KillerWatts]

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a blocking diode for AC. It would have to conduct current in both directions but power only in one.

ohhhh yeah... well it shuts down if it doesn't sense AC. So instead of the plug and play rout would I do better with batteries? Now THAT sounds like an expensive pain in the dangerous ass to me.

[KillerWatts]

Not really. Th eonly possible scenario is to purchase a fully legal and compliant system installed by the pros in a Grid Tied System. If conditions are right in 8 to 10 years it might pay for itself by letting your neighbors pay for most of it. At the end of that time when you break even you net 0% ROI.

You sound like you are the king of being AGAINST solar. Don't these cells last 20-30 years when denied oxygen? I still do not understand?

[KillerWatts]

Screw the lineman safety, you are a biz man and number one priority is will it make you money. Answer is NO it will not. Between your home made panel, no credits, and poor efficiency it will never pay for itself. All it can do is cost you a lot of money in liability if you are caught with it or hurt someone.

Yeah, I do wish I would have got less DIY stuff to play around with. And no doubt it will be the last. But SOME free power has got to be better than none right? I mean the idea of a small air conditioner that STAYS on high whenever the sun shines sounds pretty good here in the south. But yes I agree that between the glass and high dollar Dow Chem goo, that I have lost my whole ass on this deal versus just buying panels. Thant being said, I plan to have fun with it. Safety is the main thing as lawsuits are no fun at all. Sooooo?

[inetdog]

Would it be possible to run a 120v leg thru a blocking diode and then to the wall plug that the PowerJack (or some other inverter) and air conditioner are plugged in to? Then I would have current for the inverter to sense and thefor function, but in the event of an outage it would be a second line of defense against back-feeding the lines?

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a blocking diode for AC. It would have to conduct current in both directions but power only in one.

[Sunking]

Is there a better quality version of this?

Not really. Th eonly possible scenario is to purchase a fully legal and compliant system installed by the pros in a Grid Tied System. If conditions are right in 8 to 10 years it might pay for itself by letting your neighbors pay for most of it. At the end of that time when you break even you net 0% ROI.

[Sunking]

Screw the lineman safety, you are a biz man and number one priority is will it make you money. Answer is NO it will not. Between your home made panel, no credits, and poor efficiency it will never pay for itself. All it can do is cost you a lot of money in liability if you are caught with it or hurt someone.