solar install questions (beginner)

[jsza]

I am in southern CA (temecula area) and have SCE. My understanding is that there is a $1.90/watt rebate + 30% rebate from fed.

I need a 5-6kw system (prefer 6-7kw)

I've seen this

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=5125_watt_grid_tie_system

I also see that for the same $/kw I can get a

http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=6150_watt_grid_tie_system

which has 2 inverters.

and I also see they have a sale on the Kyocera KD-210-GX-LP, 210 Watt Solar Panel for $2.48/watt

I've talked to a local installer who gave a VERY rough estimate of around 6k for install of 30 panels. (originally was thinking of doing 30 of the kyocera 210w panels).

So is it better to have 2 inverters? Can each inverter only support a certain number of panels?

Is the quality of those kits good? Are there other panels/kits/suppliers that would be better?

So assuming I do the $20,049 kit the cost breakdown would be
$20,049 for kit
$6000 for labor
6150*.9*1.9=10516.5 SCE rebate (did I calculate this correct - my understanding is they take the expected performance which is not necessarily the full 6150w)
30% fed rebate=7814.7

Total cost $7719

If this price is correct it seems like it might be a good idea to go for a larger system.

Also if you have a large system and over the year make more energy than you use will SCE pay you for it? Or do they just zero your bill and leave it at that?

[Mike90250]

Wow - many questions in one post.
kits: They need a lot of labor to install, on a hot roof. easy to slip and fall. Do you need to re-roof before you put panels on?
Look also at kits/quotes here http://store.solar-electric.com/capr.html Shipping may be less.

Rebates may be affected if not professionally installed.

SCE : I have plain Net Metering. I pay at end of year, the difference between what I sold/used. Daytime I unwind the meter, nighttime, it winds back up. Very simple and predictable. HOWEVER new plans in the works, will have TIME of USE billing, and some of the solar plans, run 10AM - 8pm as Peak power rates, which is bad, because summertime power fades off about 5pm. Study the rates closely. You will get a $4 monthly fee for the meter & connection to their grid. But it's the best "battery" you can buy for $4 month.

Inverters, many different brands. Study warranty coverage. Are you interested in data collection. Interested in paying someone to collect it for you?

[jsza]

Thanks for the reply!

Unfortunately the only place that these can be installed is on the roof (this is a 2 story house). Do not need to re-roof the house is 5 years old (tile roof).
Yea I forgot to add in shipping. I think that will be around 1k from that site. But it still looks to be a few k cheaper.

It is my understanding that all of the panels will probably not fit on one part of the roof so I will need 2 inverters anyway.

The person doing the install is a licensed electrician he says he has done 11 or so solar installs in the last couple years.

I would like some data collection functionality (there is already a spare RJ-45 drop to the phone box which is right next to the power meter) but don't want to pay a monthly fee. But not if it's that much more expensive. Are the
sunny boy 6000 US good inverters?
# 10 Year warranty standard, up to 20 years optional
# Certified to the new UL 1741/ IEEE 1547
that sounds good to me.

Ah, interesting on the SCE info. The reason I asked was because he said that he had installed a system for his dad a few years back and his dad gets a check when he produces more than he uses. If that's possible at these prices i'd load the roof with as many of these things as it can hold (but i'm thinking it might not be).

I'm thinking most power will be used in the summer (AC) and not as much in the winter (gas heating). However there are a couple home servers that run 24/7 all year and networking kit to go along with them.

[jsza]

Ok i'm almost ready to have this done. Found a local installer that gave a good price all inclusive so i'm doing that instead of ordering panels myself.

It is for 30 Canadian solar 190w panels with a PVP4800 inverter. I was a bit concerned that it is a 5.7KW system with a 4.8kw inverter but he says it will be fine and not lose any energy because it is AC to DC and he seems to know what he is doing.

[Mike90250]

I'm not familar with that model # of inverter. you want to make sure you can monitor it's output (and not pay someone monitor fees). You don't want a fan cooled inverter (fans last 3 - 5 years)
5.7KW -20% = 4.56KW harvested, so yep, that's within the 4.8KW inverter. 20% losses from panels on a hot roof. DC-AC conversion should be less than 5% with modern GT inverters.
BE SURE you understand what electrical billing plan you will be on, so you dont' get a big surprise in the winter. Have the installer explain how the electric co billing works, before you sign.

[PlumBob]

Also, jaza,

My understanding is that the 30% federal rebate comes only if you have the system installed by a certified installer. Mike90250, is that not correct?

An electrician w/ 12 or so installs may not be certified. Be sure you know the regs backwards and forwards before you jump in.

BTW - yahhhhh, my first post here!

[Mike90250]

I'm no tax expert, but the text reads:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

excerpt:
Equipment/Installation Requirements: Solar water heating property must be certified by SRCC or by comparable entity endorsed by the state in which the system is installed. At least half the energy used to heat the dwelling's water must be from solar. Geothermal heat pumps must meet federal Energy Star requirements. Fuel cells must have electricity-only generation efficiency greater than 30%.

All the federal stuff:

http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/index.cfm?state=us&re=1&EE=1

All the state stuff:

http://www.dsireusa.org/

[PlumBob]

OK, Mike -

It appears that certification of the installer is not a requirement. THANKS...

[Jason]

Welcome Plumbob.

Thanks for registering!

[PlumBob]

Thanks, Jason -

Really glad to be here.

[jsza]

Thanks for the info guys.

They finished the install yesterday and today is the first full day of it running.
And yes the inverter is not fan-cooled.

It is looking like about 26-27 KWH produced today for 30 190w Canadian solar panels.

The peak wattage was 4200. Does this seem good?

I am a bit concerned by the chimney shadow. There is plenty of room on the two roof surfaces. In the morning the shadow is on the smaller surface with 10 panels and in the evening it's on the larger surface with 20. I notice that in the morning the shadow covers the bottom two panels until about 10am and in the evening the shadow starts covering the bottom 2-3 panels at about 2 ish. (sunrise 6:24am sunset 4:43pm). There is room on both roof surfaces for the panels higher up where the shadow will not hit them. Should I ask the installer to move the panels higher on the roof or is this not that big of an issue?

This is in southern california

[Mike90250]

SHADE is a BIG issue. Your strings are connected in a series, to get high voltage, and then several series strings are in parallel, to get more current (amps) Shade on 1 panel in a string, will reduce the entire string power, something as large as a chimney, would cut the string to nothing. If it's shading 2 panels, and they are in the same string, that's no extra loss, but if the 2 panels are in 2 different strings, then your loss is doubled.

This is all stuff the installer should have discovered in the initial survey, and informed you of it. It should not have been news to you now, after the install.

If this happens only in the early morning hours, or late evening, not too bad, production is not much then anyway. But if things are shaded between 9am - 3 pm, that can be a big loss.

Shadows till 10am aren't too bad, but shadows at 2pm - I call that gross negligence, and I'd not be ready to sign the final check till resolved.

Maybe in the spring, this same installer sells "driveway coating" too.

--
Sir, the tire is only flat on the bottom - the rest of it's OK !

[Sean]

jsza,

who installed them if you dont mind me asking

edit: do you have pics you could put in a post?

[jsza]

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.

[Jason]

hi jsza

FYI: I moved your thread to the "grid tied solar electric systems" forum.