on grid, but want off grid capability?

[mudhole]

thanks ampster, I am sure I will have more questions, confirming what I am purchasing and probably some set up questions.

[Ampster]

alright, getting ready to really jump in and get this done before the end of the year and take advantage of the tax credit. where have yall found to be the best place to order solar supplies online?

The site sponsors would prefer we go to the link in the header. However that is for complete systems and I think your question is for DIY parts. If you have a CED Greentech near you they are competitive and you can save the hassle and cost of shipping for things like panels and rails. i have ordered from a variety of online suppliers depending on the item, price and availability. I usually get suggestions from search engine details but have to scroll past the first two or three that are typically paid ads. Other forums have vendor sections. Links are not allowed here.

[mudhole]

alright, getting ready to really jump in and get this done before the end of the year and take advantage of the tax credit. where have yall found to be the best place to order solar supplies online?

[Ampster]

Is that the Outback Mojave integrated energy storage system?

Yes. Outback sometimes uses their own terminology but in this case they call it Energy Storage System to be consistent with the NEC terms. I haven't seen pricing and assume the ESS is UL listed. That way installers in areas where NEC2020 is implement can take advantage of the growing demand for ESSs. This new direction is influenced by their acquisition by Enersys.

[RichardCullip]

Skybox $3500
Batteries $150-900 per kWh depending if you DiY or buy SimpliPhi UL listed. If you want serious power look up the new Outback Mohawk inverter with the Mohawk integrated batteries.

Is that the Outback Mojave integrated energy storage system?

[mudhole]

hmm, not bad, i could maybe be out the door with 5kwh worth of batteries for $5k...

[Ampster]

........how much am I looking at to go the outback skybox pathway and add in batteries etc?

Skybox $3500
Batteries $150-900 per kWh depending if you DiY or buy SimpliPhi UL listed. If you want serious power look up the new Outback Mohawk inverter with the Mohawk integrated batteries.

[mudhole]

ahh, so not all hybrids will ac couple, good to know, ampster, how much am I looking at to go the outback skybox pathway and add in batteries etc?

[Ampster]

Every hybrid capable of AC coupling has various modes. Each one is slightly different but I know my Outback Skybox can prioritize self consumption and charge batteries from solar. In my case if the batteries fall below a user set threshold the Skybox will charge from the grid.

[mudhole]

so if I add a hybrid inverter with my GT system, can you program it to use battery power when you are deficit from the grid until the batteries reach a certain threshold of charge? (so if batteries are charged, but by GT is not producing enough and I have to purchase from the grid)

[bcroe]

Grid-tie inverters have an upper voltage safety limit beyond which it cuts back on the power from the array by increasing the MPPT voltage. With my Solis 240V inverter the specs state the maximum output is 264V.

Yes 264V seems to be the standard cutoff. Was it supposed to protect against
some of the illegal type connections mentioned above? Maybe, the GT inverter
certainly is not going to much change the line voltage. It will be, regardless.

So someone said lets put an upper voltage cutoff in, but what? Line here should
not exceed 120/240VAC, so a 264V limit should be OK. EXCEPT, the PoCo likes
to run as high as they can, voltage here was running 127/254VAC. That voltage
can be expected to rise slightly as the GT pushes power out. Add here a long
run of adequate but somewhat lossy feed, pick up another 9V. That puts things
pretty much at 264V, though there is no danger to anything.

My GTs were capable of 277VAC operation, I bumped up the monitor to that limit
to stay operational. In the long term, I got the PoCo to lower their voltage, and I
installed a much bigger feed to eliminate most of the 9V increase. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

Grid-tie inverters have an upper voltage safety limit beyond which it cuts back on the power from the array by increasing the MPPT voltage. With my Solis 240V inverter the specs state the maximum output is 264V.

GT inverters complying with UL 1751SA also have frequency Watt modulation. I do not know of any gensets of UPSs that are designed to do that like hybrid inverters do with AC coupling.

So, back to my question about your experience hooking up a UPS or Genset to a GT inverter? How long did it take before the smoke came out? Are you trying to imply that the voltage limit of a GT inverter will prevent it or the Genset from damage? A lot of things can happen between 240 volts and 263 volts and a lot of Amps can flow. Are you ignoring the important fact that a GT inverter is only limited by the solar generation which has no relationship to the load. In the case of the grid, which presents an infinite load that is not an issue. A genset or UPS has no mechanism to buffer the output of the GT inverter.

[nerdralph]

That will definitely power loads, but most likely will not pass the test a typical GT inverter goes through to verify it is seeing a real grid or a hybrid inverter that is designed and configured for AC coupling. Have you actually done that without smoke being released from the UPS? Since a GT inverter is designed to output all of the solar to the grid, what is your experience with a genset or UPS being able to absorb all that energy?

Grid-tie inverters have an upper voltage safety limit beyond which it cuts back on the power from the array by increasing the MPPT voltage. With my Solis 240V inverter the specs state the maximum output is 264V.

[Ampster]

No, No, No, you can not run a GT inverter on anything except the grid. .......

I respect your opinion but the Powerwall was designed to AC couple with GT inverters and does it for hundreds of thousand users. My Outback Skybox is AC coupled with 6kW of micros. I believe AC coupling is the exception to your statement but many users will think, incorrectly, that it is as simple as giving the GT inverter a 60 Hz signal. They ignore the physics and serious things can happen.

[Ampster]

Yes. Switch the main breaker off to disconnect from the grid. Then connect your UPS (or genset) to the main panel.

That will definitely power loads, but most likely will not pass the test a typical GT inverter goes through to verify it is seeing a real grid or a hybrid inverter that is designed and configured for AC coupling. Have you actually done that without smoke being released from the UPS? Since a GT inverter is designed to output all of the solar to the grid, what is your experience with a genset or UPS being able to absorb all that energy?