New 15kW solar system - which inverter and battery to buy?

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  • GodfreysGhost
    Junior Member
    • May 2022
    • 19

    New 15kW solar system - which inverter and battery to buy?

    Hi, I live in the U.K. and I am hoping to set up my first solar power system, I will be buying 40 x 375W Suntech Ultra S solar panels for £118.68 each, to make a 15kW system, including shipping the panels will be around £5,200. I have a large back garden on a slope facing West, but it gets sunlight all day and has no shade on the left hand side, which is where I am going to put the panels. The reason I want so many panels is so that I can get a decent output in the Winter months, because panels are now so incredibly cheap, and I have the space to mount them in my back garden. I live in Bristol, the Bristol Latitude is 51.45, and from a website I found, the optimum Winter angle is latitude x 0.9 plus 29 degrees = 46.305 + 29 = 75 degrees. So I plan to mount the panels at that angle, and presumably in the Summer the output will be quite a bit lower than if the panels were mounted at a lower angle. (This is what I want, maximum possible output in the Winter, and a lower than 15kW output in the Summer, as I can't use that amount of energy, and won't be exporting it to the grid for payment (my electrician has told me that excess energy will automatically go into the grid, but in order to get the necessary certificate to get paid for this, I would have to use a proper solar power company and buy the solar panels, etc. from them as a package, and this would cost me three or more times as much as buying it all myself.)
    I have a very competent electrician who will be doing all the electrical work for me, but I am not sure what inverter and what battery to go for. I want to buy one 5kWh battery to begin with, and then add one or two more after I have had the system up and running for a few months, when I know how much storage I might need. I have gone through all the electrical items in the house with my electrician, and we have worked out that the maximum power I could be using at one time is around 8kW. I have an electric shower but I plan to turn that off and use hot water from the hot water tank instead, to have a shower with, as I can dump excess electricity straight into the immersion heater, so the only high load devices I will be using are - 3kW wall fan heaters in two bathrooms - these may be on at the same time if my wife is having a shower at the same time I am, but we can easily stagger our bathroom time and use the same bathroom, thus only havine one 3kW wall fan heater on at any one time. (And saving heat because one of us will be going into a bathroom that has just been warmed up by the previous user.) 3kW oven, 3kW-4kW electric hob, which may be used at the same time. 3kW electric convector heaters, which we may use at a lower power output, such as 1kW or 2kW (they have switches on the side to select the power output). We are both aware of how much power each appliance takes, and we will be grid tied to begin with, so it won't matter if we go over the 10kW, but we want to use as much solar power as we can, so we'll try to avoid this as much as possible.
    I have been reading up on solar panel optimisation, by using micro inverters or optimisers, but as these cost around £50 each, and the panels cost only £120 each, I think it would be a waste of money for me to spend any money on them, as the part of the garden I am going to be putting the panels in has no shade at all, and for the cost of two and a half inverters, I could just buy another complete panel.
    I am planning on laying the panels down in landscape format, one panel high, in four rows of ten. I will be building a frame from 26.9mm galvanised tube, which is £27 per 6m length. The panels will therefore be no higher than 4 feet off the ground, so they won't be an eyesore to my neighbours. They will be as unintrusive as possible. I have looked at commercially available solar panel mounting systems, and for my purposes they would be incredibly expensive, so I'm going to make my own mounts. As the panels will be so low to the ground, and they are next to a four foot high hedge that runs the length of the left hand side of my garden, there shouldn't be much wind load to worry about either.
    So I am just hoping that somebody here can advise me on what inverter and battery to buy. I am considering the possibility of going completely off grid in the future, but as far as I can tell, an inverter is either grid-tied, or off grid, so I guess I will have to upgrade the inverter in the future if I decide to go off grid, and just sell the old inverter? If the electricity from my electricity company were to go off for a few hours, would I not be able to use my solar system with a grid-tied inverter?
    Many thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
  • bcroe
    Solar Fanatic
    • Jan 2012
    • 5198

    #2
    Lots of panels are good, but if you expect them to work in the
    snow season, the minimum ground clearance should exceed
    the height of the pile of snow sliding off. That is about 40in
    here at 42 Lat, IL, USA. Landscape mount is good, if you
    leave a half foot gap between higher level panels, it will give
    snow an easier place to go and result in several small piles
    instead of a single huge one. There is a sticky on the subject.
    good luck, Bruce Roe

    Comment

    • uncannily
      Junior Member
      • May 2022
      • 2

      #3
      I'm putting a 7kW off-grid system togrther in southern Scotland.
      I have a flat garage roof, about 6m x 7m so I am limited in the area available.

      Using this calculator https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php I have played with the effect of panel tilt and orientation.
      It gives useful information about the power output you can expect over the course of a year and breaks thatdown into projected outputs for each month.

      The conclusion I reached is to lay the panels flat.
      By laying them flat I lose about 12% of output - but I can get more panels in the space as they don't need to be spaced apart and I don't have to build any frames. With panels so cheap that is a win.
      Like Bristol, there isn't a snow season in SW Scotland so I'm not concerned with snow piling up. On the other hand it can get very windy and not having to factor
      I'm looking at ways to make access safe to allow for cleaning the panels.

      The system will be off-grid with a bank of lead acid batteries and a Victron MultiPlus II inverter/charger. This can accept "shore power" - ie a grid input - to power loads and/or charge the batteries when system output is insufficient.
      The Multi Plus can signal a generator to autostart so I'm confident that it could switch to link a grid input relatively simply.

      You don't want micro inverters if you are planning to go off grid. They convert the power to AC at the panel - a good idea if you are grid tied but less efficient if you are wanting to charge batteries.
      Last edited by uncannily; 06-01-2022, 09:22 AM.

      Comment

      • GodfreysGhost
        Junior Member
        • May 2022
        • 19

        #4
        Thanks very much for your reply, uncannily - as I have just been thinking, today, about putting the panels flat on the ground on the garden, to save all the expense and time of trying to build a ground mount system. (I wouldn't be buying a ready made system because the prices are ridiculous, I would have been buying galvanised metal poles, or using reinforced concrete fence posts, for the frame of the system.) I am going to put weed control fabric down, then on top I will put bricks, wrapped in weed control fabric to prevent them from scratching the frames of the solar panels, on the ground, and mount the solar panels on top of those, and join the solar panels together using clamps. There will be two to four bricks at each corner, and one or two bricks halfway up each of the long sides, between two panels, and around the edges. I will put gravel down on the weed control fabric that sticks out around the perimeter, to help keep the fabric free from sunlight, and to make the whole thing look better. I don't think there will any problem with wind lifting up the panels, because they weigh 31kg each, and will be tied together, and only three inches off the ground.
        Also, having the panels flat on the ground means that my neighbours won't be able to see them unless they try really, really hard (i.e. by peering over the hedge).
        I am going to buy two 6Kw MPP Solar hybrid inverters, which are much, much cheaper than Victron inverters, from MPP Solar on Ebay.co.uk.
        If I find in the future that I want or need to mount the solar panels on a frame, I can always do that then, but at least I will have tried the simplest and cheapest (and fastest) option first. I may lean a row of panels up against the hedge that goes up the side of the garden (their initial position on the ground will be about five feet away from the hedge, so it will be easy enough to move one row up against it) and see how that affects the output in the winter, but I am hoping it won't make much difference. I am now looking for scientific papers into the angle of the sun in relation to solar panels, and what difference it makes.

        Comment

        • Mike90250
          Moderator
          • May 2009
          • 16020

          #5
          Many solar hybrid inverters require batteries to function
          Buy inverters for your area, you don't want to get cheap 230VAC 50 Hz euro inverters and try to wire them to 240V split phase 60 hz grid
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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