Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Remoting the inverter on/off switch

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Remoting the inverter on/off switch

    For those with no inverter remote switch panel included in the unit make your own by pulling the rectangular switch out of the inverter, i can pull mine with my finger nails nearly. Extend the two wire to your desired location and fit another switch in series with the one you just pulled out. I will be putting those two wires into the auxiliary signal switches of my ATS Auto transfer switch that swaps to back up power( inverter power) in a power loss situation and then swaps back when city power returns. If i didn’t remote the inverter power on switch and just left it on waiting for a power fail then the battery would be feeding it standing by but also my SOUER FPC-500BL 24v-220v PSW inverter has a system of slow cooling fan or high cooling fan , if switched on the fan is running 24/7 either fast or slow even if nothing is plugged in so draining your battery !! My remote switch connection at the ATS will prevent the inverter running while city power is present

  • #2
    Beware that some inverter may not like that.

    I have a Darfon hybrid inverter where they tried to do that to meet code requirement during installation, and it induced all kinds of problems with the inverter.

    In the end, Darfon had to engineer a separate switch to do the job without causing havoc.

    This may just be a Darfon Anomaly, and you may be fine with yours, but just saying in case you run into problems...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by scrambler View Post
      Beware that some inverter may not like that.

      I have a Darfon hybrid inverter where they tried to do that to meet code requirement during installation, and it induced all kinds of problems with the inverter.

      In the end, Darfon had to engineer a separate switch to do the job without causing havoc.

      This may just be a Darfon Anomaly, and you may be fine with yours, but just saying in case you run into problems...
      Ok , just extending the two internal wires on the inbuilt on/off switch ? Ok we will see i have just fitted the Auto Tranfer Switch on the house incoming supply and added the inverters 220v coming supply to it as the backup power and it works great when i lose the city power the device clicks over to alternative power source so quick it’s hardly noticeable. But i need the inverters inbuilt switch wires , which i will extend the 2m to the Transfer switch, to be in the Normally open and waiting to make and close auxiliary contacts and then start my inverter. As i described my Souer 500w PSW inverter cooling fan runs on low speed 24hrs a day if the On/Off switch is left on most inverters would turn off if cold, most annoying and noisy and by design. My ATS auxiliary NO switch will close in the low volt situation and start my inverter and when power restores the ATS auxiliary switch will again move to Normally open position and inverter will turn off and not drain my battery. The wait for the inverter to power up is also beneficial as i want my room AC to experience a power out and turn off waiting to be reset and not draw power from the Battery as it’s on the same circuit that i have chosen to feed with the alternate power source, battery, at the ATS. If the switch was quick enough at changing over I suppose the AC may carry on running uninterrupted on the battery fed inverter feed. The AC is a 9000btu Mitsubishi inverter and i have had it run for a couple of hours on my 75AH Lithium NMC 24v Battery in a test before the inverter stopped on fault. That is also an annoyance i have with the inverter in that because I wasn’t around when the inverter stopped on fault, low volts i assume, I don’t know what the battery went down to. A question i could ask to the forums members who in the main have never offered any comment, my story to simplistic for the Einsteins I suppose

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BaanCamSawang View Post

        ..... The AC is a 9000btu Mitsubishi inverter and i have had it run for a couple of hours on my 75AH Lithium NMC 24v Battery in a test before the inverter stopped on fault. That is also an annoyance i have with the inverter in that because I wasn’t around when the inverter stopped on fault, low volts i assume, I don’t know what the battery went down to. A question i could ask to the forums members who in the main have never offered any comment, my story to simplistic for the Einsteins I suppose
        The BIG problem, is not knowing what your battery low voltage is. Discharging any Li battery deeply can rapidly damage it. All Li batteries are supposed to have a BMS system to prevent accidental under/over charge, which can easily prime a damaged battery for a fire, days or weeks from the voltage event.

        Do you know your BMS low voltage cut-off or your inverter low battery shutdown setting ? If you are going to mess around with high power systems - even 24V, you have to have some basic understanding of what you are doing.

        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #5
          https://share.icloud.com/photos/0vK8...dg#Phon_Hi

          Well back for a much asked for update on extending the two internal cables of my inverter on/off switch going up to my auxiliary no volt signal contacts on my automatic transfer switch for blackouts. My inverter was a Souer FPC-500BL. The ATS pictured has 3 terminals that I’m assured are NC . C1 . OFF which is a strange nomenclature to a Brit, i would expect NO C NC. I cut into one of the two wires inside the inverter and extended the circuit with with some bellwire and connected them into C1 and OFF because i had proved that in tests these contacts close when the power is lost. This will start my inverter when the power is lost and supply power to the back up power side of the switch and in-turn take over the running of the load. So with the ATS auxiliary contacts now in series with Inverter on off switch i readied my self for action. I switched on the inverter switch which didn’t fire due being held off by the auxiliary switch on the ATS at the mains. I simulated a blackout by killing the oncoming house power the switch changed over to back power automatically but at the same time took out the RCCB protection. The Inverter was beeping fault as I remember so I switched it back on and the internal ran ok as if it is now providing power. Strangely the house was not being powered. On investigation i found the inverter was not giving 220v and the internal 40amp PCB fuse is still intact. I have to surmise that the internal wires making contact with the Remote ATS auxiliary contacts has induced a voltage into the signal volts going through the on/off switch cables and blown some internal electronics ?

          Ok move on a few days and a DA-1600 24v PSW inverter turns up that stays quiet with the fan not running until needed. I fitted that but am not going to so the same as I’m not paying good money after bad once more, i will fit a very local relay in series with the switch and power that with the Auxiliary ATS switches.

          I have decided to ditch the DA 1600 PSW inverter as it is not very good. We’ve had the odd lights flicker and where the souer 500w inverter ran our Mitsubishi 9000btu 3.5kw AC unit for 3 hrs plus before cutting out on low volts this DA 1600 can’t manage it for 3 minutes. The name is disingenuous as they are trading on the surge peak power rating not the continuous. Also the power it provides cannot operate the ATS when required as the internal relay solenoids chatter and don’t pull in and buzzer loudly, i have fed the source B side of the ATS from 220v house power and it works ok as a switch so am 99% sure the switch is ok.

          My other reason for replacement other than it not operating the ATS is when i awoke next day after putting into operation i has left it in standby and the fan was not running which is what i had ordered but the inverter was hot to the touch. That heat had come from my battery and the fact that I’d left my lithium charger on is all that had prevented me from a possible flat battery.

          I have ordered another Souer 1000w which should be here tomorrow.
          Last edited by BaanCamSawang; 04-18-2021, 03:24 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

            The BIG problem, is not knowing what your battery low voltage is. Discharging any Li battery deeply can rapidly damage it. All Li batteries are supposed to have a BMS system to prevent accidental under/over charge, which can easily prime a damaged battery for a fire, days or weeks from the voltage event.

            Do you know your BMS low voltage cut-off or your inverter low battery shutdown setting ? If you are going to mess around with high power systems - even 24V, you have to have some basic understanding of what you are doing.
            I so believe the inverter battery low volt cut out is 20v according to the sheet. The battery BMS is a DALY 60/30 7s. The battery charger keeps 29.2v

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by scrambler View Post
              Beware that some inverter may not like that.

              I have a Darfon hybrid inverter where they tried to do that to meet code requirement during installation, and it induced all kinds of problems with the inverter.

              In the end, Darfon had to engineer a separate switch to do the job without causing havoc.

              This may just be a Darfon Anomaly, and you may be fine with yours, but just saying in case you run into problems...
              You were correct i think

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BaanCamSawang View Post

                You were correct i think
                Cant be sure, but FYI, when they first just wired a remote switch in series and it caused failure, they next tried too put a small relay powered by the battery, next to the existing switch so that whatever happened in the long wiring would not affect the inverter, and unfortunately that seemed to work at first but ended up also causing failure in the inverter....

                To this day I still cannot understand why even a bit of extra wiring in series with the disconnect circuit could cause so much problems....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi

                  Well looks like we had exactly the same experience but just like you couldn’t understand why just breaking into the on off switch circuit could make a problem , i similarly didn’t. How crazy.

                  I was thinking that maybe the switch is special and is a switch resistance, we have that in my game for giving PLC controllers a different command but if the switch did have a resistor put another switch in series would have the same effect on the controller anyway plus i tested the resistance of the switch and its 0.2ohms so it’s just a switch.

                  Hopefully someone will come in and enlighten us.

                  I may with the new replacement upgrade 1000w Souer inverter arriving soon, which i have seen reviews similarly complaining that the fans stay on 24/7, just switch the fans through my own thermostat or temp controller.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    could be some funny inductive kickback with longer wires, many cheap inverters are built to a 70 or 80% "works out of the box" price point
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                      could be some funny inductive kickback with longer wires, many cheap inverters are built to a 70 or 80% "works out of the box" price point

                      But Scrambler says his installers fitted a relay in series with the switch circuit wires, which was my next idea, which also took the inverter out later on ?

                      what could possibly be the problem with fitting a relay in the same circuit literally inside the inverter housing and then operating the relay remotely as he did?

                      One thing i did was use bell will through the same holes the power cables entered the house, i could see this causing erratic operating but damaging the Souer inverter?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I cannot explain why something fried, only throwing out ideas.
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X