big panels and bad controllers

[davecason]

Hi Gang,

A year ago I bought a Morningstar Pro 30 PWM controller ..... I had this hooked up to one of those 100 watt coleman 12v panels ..... that in turn fed a Optima Blue top AGM battery in a battery box and all was well.

Recently I got a deal on a single CanadianSolar module and it is a: SC3U-380MS Pmax=380W Vmp=40.0V Imp=9.50 Voc=47.8 Isc=10.01A (its a big boy !!)


So to make sure it was happy I checked the spec's on that ProStar 30 and it said 60v is fine so I bought the panel. Now on page 28 buried in the manual it says that's bad and the guys at Morningstar say it's also bad because it'll stress the controller. (sigh) So now I gotta change it ....

Someone suggested a EPEVER Tracer3210AN - what do you think ? That one or a Tracer2215BN do you guys think either one of those MPPT charge controllers would be happier on the system?

Keep in mind that for now I'm only feeding the one single Optima Blue Top AMG battery:

Model: D34M
Weight: 43.5 lb
Capacity: 55 Ah
Post Type: Dual SAE & 5/16 Stainless Stud
CCA: 750 Amp
Width: 6.88 in
Length: 10.06 in
Height: 7.94 in
Reserve Capacity @25 Amps: 120 Minutes
Voltage: 12 Volts
Group Size: BCI: 34
Internal Resistance: 0.0028
CA: 870 Amp
MCA:870

Cheers'
Dave

[secessus]

So to make sure it was happy I checked the spec's on that ProStar 30 and it said 60v is fine so I bought the panel.
Now on page 28 buried in the manual it says that's bad

Feel free to attach the panel and use it, you'll just get ~50% the expected output. That halved output will still be more than a 55A AGM requires (11A) and pretty close to the max it will accept (~18A). On the upside, you'll be totally immune to temperature derating.

Someone suggested a EPEVER Tracer3210AN - what do you think ? That one or a Tracer2215BN do you guys think either one of those MPPT charge controllers would be happier on the system?

The EpEver A and BN series are both tough and will work fine. The A-series costs less and IMO has a faster, more robust MPPT algorithm..

The 30A is appropriately sized. I am a fan of (mild-to-moderate) overpaneling but I would not put 380w of panel on a 20A controller.

[davecason]

Yea, ....... (sigh)

So do you think it'll be remotely OK with a EPEVER and yep, I'm going to get their EPEVER Tracer 4215BN. I'll go with BN because of the better quality.

Do you think that'll work? I know shot myself in the foot by going blindly with the spec on the Morningstar but maybe I can get it to behave with a better
controller I did get the panel from a buddy for free ......

Thanks for the help I'm a newbie but you can't tell can you? (grin)

Cheers'
Dave

[inetdog]

One ambiguity that can cause confusion is that the input of a CC or inverter will be exposed, at times, to the panel's Voc at the coldest likely ambient temperature rather than just the nominal Vmp of the panel. But the panel specs feature the Vmp.

[davecason]

I wish I knew what you just said ! (grin)

So are you saying in very cold weather that at some point the Charge Controller might see the panels max out out of the Voc instead the the normal expected Vmp?

That being the case how much of an issue is that when the Charge Controller and it's published spec is still 60 volts?

pro30.png

I've had this Pro30 gen 3 now for quite a while ....I said oh a new panel great, and its got a Vmp of 40.0 OK fine - yes its Voc is up at 47.8 but I should still be good after the
sheet attached above says 60 volts !!!

As a newbie all I can do is read the spec ...... then later in talking with Mornginstar the guy was like Noooo! Bad Juju ....you'll stress the heck out of the controller.and then
he quotes a line I didn't see ..... (grin) Way down on page 28 ...... in a wee small box ....... DOH !!!

pro30page28.png

So - that's where I am now .... So what do you think can I get a new Tracer 4215Bn and will that make things "happier" with that single Optima?

As a note at some point I will probably swap out the AGM Optima and setup a string of four brand new flooded Group 24DC - 150 MIM deep cycle batteries and try using
the new panel and the Tracer on them instead. Any comments or suggestions are very much appreciated ! And thanks for commenting !!

Cheers'
Dave

[davecason]

,
HI Folks,

So I now have EPSOLAR Tracer 4215BN charge controller on a sub-miniature 6.5 foot by 3.5 foot module it’s a huge Canadiansolar CS3U-365-380MS .......
When I set it up it blocks out the sun! (grin)

Anyway it's in and happy now and the panel and battery seem to be happy but I thought I'd run the setup by the experts here. So I have a rather large
panel/module (380W @ 9.5a) hooked up now to a decent controller and one lonely Optima BlueTop 34DC AGM battery for now …..

So the panel is installed and working happily and here's what I set for the control parameters in the new Tracer 4215BN:

Battery Type: User
Batt Amp Hours: 50a
Temp Comp Coefficient: -3mv/C/2V
Selected Voltage: 12 vdc
Over Voltage Disconnect: 16.0 vdc
Charging Limit Voltage: 15.0 vdc
Over Voltage reconnect: 15.0 vdc
Equalization Charge Voltage: 14.6 vdc
Boost Charging Voltage: 14.4 vdc
Float Charging Voltage: 13.4 vdc
Boost Reconnect Voltage: 13.2 vdc
Low Voltage Reconnect: 12.6 vdc
Under Volt Reconnect: 12.2 vdc
Under Volt Warning: 12.0 vdc
Low Voltage Disconnect: 11.0 vdc
Discharge Limit Voltage: 10.0 vdc
Equalize Time Duration: 0 mins
Boost Time Duration: 10 mins

So that’s what they’re set for now but ANY suggestions or ideas are welcome, I’m just a newbie getting in to Solar for fun so if you guys see something set
wrong or have a suggestion or comment I’m all for it and I appreciate the help!

For example on page 9-10 of the manual it says:

(see pic)


And I can’t make heads or tails of what they’re saying?

Cheers’
Dave

[Mike90250]

If that's a sealed optima battery, it should not have an EQ setting, or if you can't disable the EQ, set it to your Absorb voltage for 5 minutes.

for a long lifetime of your expensive battery, you need to get the battery data sheet and use it to program the charge controller

[davecason]

Hi Mike !

How's it going, how's your Saturday? Yep, you are correct it's an AGM so I didn't pick SEALED or GEL from the menu choices - I went with USER so I could set each option separately.

I have the EQ set for 0 mins so it will never try to Equalize that battery. I didn't have the option to set the Boost to zero so it's at 10 mins as the lowest setting.

What do you think? I dunno if $230 is what I'd call expensive but I do what to do it right!

Optima BlueTOP Marine Duel Puropose P/N: BLUE 34DC

MCA = 870
CCA = 750
AH = 55
RC = 120

Cheers'
Dave

[secessus]

> I didn't have the option to set the Boost to zero so it's at 10 mins as the lowest setting.

On these controllers "Boost" == Absorption stage, and should probably be maxxed out at 180mins or however high it will go. Not the same thing as EQ.

[davecason]

Hey Secessus .....

In my limited play with the remote MT-50 controls today.......

If you pick GEL, FLOOD, or SEALED - you get what they give you - however if you select the batt type of: USER - it seems like you can change most settings, right ?!

But yea - same thing - under USER when I was in Boost Duration - the lowest I could pick was also 10 mins as well ?! Meh !?! I guess .....

Cheers'
Dave

[secessus]

Right, the predefined profiles are hardcoded and the USER profile is user configurable, hopefully to the battery manufacturer's specs.
In this case they say Vabs/boost voltage is 14.7v (I am suggesting to hold this for 3 hours, see note at bottom).
Float at 13.2v - 13.8v until the sun goes down.

To clarify/muddy:

Mike was saying to zero out the EQ duration, or if not possible then neuter it by

1. settting the EQ voltage to the same as the Absorption voltage (Vabs, "boost" voltage), and
2. minimizing the EQ duration.

The absorption (boost) duration setting itself should, IMO, be maxed out as Absorption takes many hours in deeply cycled lead chemistry batteries. Probably more than 3 hours but 180mins is the max we have on the epsolar/epever units.

Optima's guidance linked above says to hold Vabs until acceptance <= 1A then hold for two more hours. For our purposes and with this controller we just set Absorption/boost duration to 3 hours.

[davecason]

Oh !

OK, well to make it easier - what of these would you change it TO please ?

Battery Type: User
Batt Amp Hours: 50a
Temp Comp Coefficient: -3mv/C/2V
Selected Voltage: 12 vdc
Over Voltage Disconnect: 16.0 vdc
Charging Limit Voltage: 15.0 vdc
Over Voltage reconnect: 15.0 vdc
Equalization Charge Voltage: 14.6 vdc
Boost Charging Voltage: 14.4 vdc
Float Charging Voltage: 13.4 vdc
Boost Reconnect Voltage: 13.2 vdc
Low Voltage Reconnect: 12.6 vdc
Under Volt Reconnect: 12.2 vdc
Under Volt Warning: 12.0 vdc
Low Voltage Disconnect: 11.0 vdc
Discharge Limit Voltage: 10.0 vdc
Equalize Time Duration: 0 mins
Boost Time Duration: 10 mins

Cheers'
Dave

[secessus]

These are the proposed changes to meet manufacture, Mike, and my recommendations;

Batt Amp Hours: 55a
Equalization Charge Voltage: 14.7 vdc
Boost Charging Voltage: 14.7 vdc
Boost Time Duration: 180 mins

more info on these controllers

[davecason]

Cool Thanks !

I'll go make the changes right now !

Much appreciated !

Cheers'
Dave

[Mike90250]

i'm going to suggest error on the side of caution and reduce the Boost ( Absorb) to 2 hours, and monitor the amps going into the battery (not the amps from the controller - those could go to power a load)

Sealed batteries really dislike overcharge and they vent gas (un-re-combined electrolyte) and that capacity is lost forever, when they are overcharged. AGM (SEALED) is somewhat resistant to sulfation and so if you monitor it's last 2 hours of charge, and see what the ending amps are, you can precisely set the Absorb time, which is better than guessing.

read up more about AGM here

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm