2 panels lower production than others ??

[desmo907]

I noticed recently that 2 of my panels (3 rows of 7 = 21) with Enphase M215 micro inverters seem to be producing less power than the others (at least I think so).

For example, tonight they say 750 & 1.06 Wh yet all the others were showing 1.39 - 1.42 kWh
The lowest is 1 is on the left edge of the middle row while the other is 1 in from the top row (from left).

The Enlighten Manager (website) is not showing any alerts, etc. Could the micro inverters be going bad?

I can run reports on each micro but unsure what to look for...I did compare their numbers to a panel that seems to be fine and the numbers are pretty equal.
Date/Time AC Voltage (V) AC Frequency (Hz) DC Voltage (V) DC Current (A) Temperature (?F) Power Produced (W)

When I look at the past 7 days report for each panel I see these 2 are a bit lower (~5kWh vs 8kWh) so it seems maybe it started recently.

Thoughts?

[scrambler]

I assume you physically inspected the panels to check if there was anything on them.

[desmo907]

I assume you physically inspected the panels to check if there was anything on them.

Yes I did... they all look equally dirty (pollen).

[foo1bar]

Yes I did... they all look equally dirty (pollen).

I'd wash them off. Just hose them down to get the pollen off and see if there's anything else.
Look for any bird droppings.
And look for anything else that casts a shadow on them - like a tree that now shades part of them in the morning and didn't before.
A shadow on 1 cell can often cause your power production to drop by ~30% because a whole section gets bypassed using one of the bypass diodes. (depends on your panel - but often they're divided into 3 sections with a bypass diode for each section)

[emartin00]

I'd advise you wash them in the morning before it gets too warm. You don't want to cause thermal shock in the glass going from 120F to 50F hose water.

[desmo907]

I'd advise you wash them in the morning before it gets too warm. You don't want to cause thermal shock in the glass going from 120F to 50F hose water.

Thanks.. I did just wash them off. The upper panel that was 1.06 Wh compared to ~1.40 of the others seems to be ok now as I now see (9am here in northeast) 20 panels at 51-54 Wh.
However the lowest panel, that did have some bird doodoo on it, only shows 35 at the moment. I washed it again by hand with a towel and it seems clean as the others.

Guess I'll wait it out today?

Update.
The other panel that was a bit low also seems to be slowing down.
As of 10:38am: 20 panels are showing 198-209 Wh yet the 1 panel (that ii thought was fixed) is now 171 and the other is still significantly lower at 130. Could heat be a factor also (60 F here now).

[desmo907]

Thanks.. I did just wash them off. The upper panel that was 1.06 Wh compared to ~1.40 of the others seems to be ok now as I now see (9am here in northeast) 20 panels at 51-54 Wh.
However the lowest panel, that did have some bird doodoo on it, only shows 35 at the moment. I washed it again by hand with a towel and it seems clean as the others.

Update.
The other panel that was a bit low also seems to be slowing down.
As of 10:38am: 20 panels are showing 198-209 Wh yet the 1 panel (that ii thought was fixed) is now 171 and the other is still significantly lower at 130. Could heat be a factor also (60 F here now).

[J.P.M.]

Thanks.. I did just wash them off. The upper panel that was 1.06 Wh compared to ~1.40 of the others seems to be ok now as I now see (9am here in northeast) 20 panels at 51-54 Wh.
However the lowest panel, that did have some bird doodoo on it, only shows 35 at the moment. I washed it again by hand with a towel and it seems clean as the others.

Update.
The other panel that was a bit low also seems to be slowing down.
As of 10:38am: 20 panels are showing 198-209 Wh yet the 1 panel (that ii thought was fixed) is now 171 and the other is still significantly lower at 130. Could heat be a factor also (60 F here now).

How long have you had the array ? Still under warranty ?

Some of the M215 micros weren't as reliable or robust as newer stuff.

As foo1bar writes, any shading on the array ?

If still under warranty, and you can't make sense of the drop in production, I'd call the installer or Enphase. Sounds to me like it might be a couple of micros went south or a wiring problem.

[desmo907]

They were installed in 2012. No shade at all. Excellent view to sun on nicely sloped garage roof.
I tried calling the installer a few years ago to add more panels, and they tried to sell me on replacing all the inverters (with new model), then I never heard back from them (I would have needed a new array and monitoring, etc.). I told him I rather just buy the older M215 (cheap on ebay) and add panels but could not find anyone to do it.
I did look under the rack mount... and not see anything weird (e.g., chewed wires, etc.).

The other nearest installer (from enPhase website) is miles away in MA and they don't service CT.

I did email enPhase... waiting.... they have 25 year warranty, but suspect I am stuck with replacing myself.

array.png

[J.P.M.]

They were installed in 2012. No shade at all. Excellent view to sun on nicely sloped garage roof.
I tried calling the installer a few years ago to add more panels, and they tried to sell me on replacing all the inverters (with new model), then I never heard back from them (I would have needed a new array and monitoring, etc.). I told him I rather just buy the older M215 (cheap on ebay) and add panels but could not find anyone to do it.
I did look under the rack mount... and not see anything weird (e.g., chewed wires, etc.).

The other nearest installer (from enPhase website) is miles away in MA and they don't service CT.

I did email enPhase... waiting.... they have 25 year warranty, but suspect I am stuck with replacing myself.

array.png

You have a product that's still under warranty. That product's operation appears to be out of spec for reasons you cannot identify.

I'd start with contact with the original installer and keep good records of conversations, including names, times and particulars. Take it up to Ehphase if you think it'll help resolve the situation in your favor.

What have you got to lose ? Nothing can replace persistence.

[desmo907]

Agreed.. I did email enPhase and left voice mail with ConEdison (they bought out Ross Solar).

I wonder if I can easily replace the micros (if needed, as I suspect they won't cover install costs). The panels seems to be bolted on in 4 (near corners) from the top (nut). Reaching the far once would maybe require laying out on the panel though.... unsure how safe that is (~190lb man) without damage to the panel

I also assume I can rule out the panel itself?

[J.P.M.]

Agreed.. I did email enPhase and left voice mail with ConEdison (they bought out Ross Solar).

I wonder if I can easily replace the micros (if needed, as I suspect they won't cover install costs). The panels seems to be bolted on in 4 (near corners) from the top (nut). Reaching the far once would maybe require laying out on the panel though.... unsure how safe that is (~190lb man) without damage to the panel

I also assume I can rule out the panel itself?

Do not lay on a panel. The induced stress will be bad for the panel sooner or later. Sooner failure it'll stop working. gradual it'll degrade in performance. Don't do it.

It may be the panel, but odds are against it. It also sounds like you may not have the experience necessary to test it, or maybe even get at all the questionable panels.

I'd be persistent in pursuing a warranty claim before I did anything else. But that's just me.

[desmo907]

enPhase responded and said both inverters are skipping and will send replacements. I asked about install costs

They said (regarding installation):
"Regarding the Labor Reimbursement: In order to eligible for labor Reimbursement the unit installation date must be within two years of the claim date. Since it crosses more than two years we are not able to reimburse labor cost."

[desmo907]

I had the 2 micros replaced with M215 (though they also had "IQ7" on them which I think is the newer technology). M215240-IQ7
enPhase assured me I could use my older Envoy for reporting the data (though the website implies I need a newer Envoy unit for IQ devices). The new micros are reporting about 70% of what the other panels are reporting (this was the same issue I had before).

enPhase says: The microinverter is generating lesser power than its adjacent inverters due to low incoming DC voltage from the panel.
Now enPhase wants me to shut the system, remove the microinverter from the faulty panel and swap with another microinverter from a known good working panel, and switch on for a few cycles (~45 min). If the DC values are good then the microinverter is faulty and needs a replacement. But it seems unlikely for them to send me 2 bad micros. If the values remain the same then the problem is with the panel and I need to contact my installer to replace the panel.

I thought panels are pretty reliable? What could have happened?

Ross was my installer who is now owned by ConEd and don't return calls. The panels are Phono Onyx 235-270 dark. Maybe I can just contact them if this experiment shows them bad?
(They have a 10 year warranty - I was installed in 2012) and a 25 year performance warranty = 90% for 10 years and 75% for 25 years).

I do have a guy (who installs systems) who could swap out the panels as he did the micros but this will cost me even more as enPhase won't pay after the first 2 years. And I have to pay him again now for this experiment.

I had thought this was bad micros as enPhase told me that were "skipping".

Thoughts?

[J.P.M.]

enPhase responded and said both inverters are skipping and will send replacements. I asked about install costs

They said (regarding installation):
"Regarding the Labor Reimbursement: In order to eligible for labor Reimbursement the unit installation date must be within two years of the claim date. Since it crosses more than two years we are not able to reimburse labor cost."

Not much new with the Enphase warranty with respect to labor. At least there's a time window now.