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  • #16
    Originally posted by NetComrade View Post

    OK, I was able to zoom into 7/7/18, which seemed like a perfect sunny day. Peak is 3K and 4.4K (7.4K total)
    Interesting, I would have expected the nearly flat roof (smaller) array to produce closer to 3.92K of panels it has on it at peak. Roof is no more than 10-15 degrees off south (a bit to the west)
    What's you latitude ? For latitudes > ~ 20 deg. or so, a horizontal array orientation will produce less than a tilted orientation. Another big concern with horizontal panels is that they quickly turn into shallow sandboxes and, depending on location and local climate/conditions, without very frequent dusting/cleaning, lose a fair amount of production from dirt/dust buildup.
    Last edited by J.P.M.; 04-18-2019, 11:25 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

      What's you latitude ? For latitudes > ~ 20 deg. or so, a horizontal array orientation will produce less than a tilted orientation. Another big concern with horizontal panels is that they quickly turn into shallow sandboxes and, depending on location and local climate/conditions, without very frequent dusting/cleaning, lose a fair amount of production from dirt/dust buildup.
      We are at around 40 degrees (around Wash DC area). Based on http://www.solarpaneltilt.com/, Optimal solar angle is 16 degrees. the flattish (porch) roof is about 10 (or horizontal to level ground as you prefer). I am on the roof regularly, and the panels were pretty clean. We usually get plenty of rain to keep them clean (and certainly last year as we got something like 5ft rain on the year, and plenty in May/June). I am encouraged to give them a powerwash and see what happens this summer.
      Last edited by NetComrade; 04-18-2019, 12:05 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by NetComrade View Post

        We are at around 40 degrees (around Wash DC area). Based on http://www.solarpaneltilt.com/, Optimal solar angle is 15 degrees. the flattish (porch) roof is about 10 (or horizontal to level ground as you prefer). I am on the roof regularly, and it's pretty clean. I am encouraged to give it a wash and see what happens this summer.
        Based on that approximation from your included link, at 40 deg. lat.: Optimum tilt = (40 deg.)* (0.76) + 3.1 deg. = 33.5 deg., which also agrees with the included table.

        Another common rule of thumb that's been around for a long time, and in the absence of more site specific information is that optimum tilt is somewhere around the local latitude +/- 10 deg. maybe, and facing generally south +/- 20-30 deg. azimuth or so.

        A better approx. than either of those is to use PVWatts for your location and fish around some with the orientation. That usually takes about 5-10 minutes for what's probably a better estimate for a particular orientation. Shading and general annual cloud/weather patterns will of course need to be considered and will affect that optimum orientation. That's part of what PVWatts considers and why it's probably a better way to approx. optimum orientation than rules of thumb.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

          Based on that approximation from your included link, at 40 deg. lat.: Optimum tilt = (40 deg.)* (0.76) + 3.1 deg. = 33.5 deg., which also agrees with the included table.
          You're referencing optimal tilt on annual basis for maximum annual production, I was referencing optimal tilt for peak summer production, and my expectation that panels would be performing closely to rated wattage.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by NetComrade View Post

            You're referencing optimal tilt on annual basis for maximum annual production, I was referencing optimal tilt for peak summer production, and my expectation that panels would be performing closely to rated wattage.
            Well, you have the potential to know much more about your situation than I and how net metering (if you will be on such a tariff) works with your POCO.

            But, if you're going to be on a net metering schedule that has annual trueup as most do, you will, in all likelihood be better off with a greater tilt angle than 17 deg. unless shading or some other circumstances dictate.

            Maybe I'm way wrong here, but it reads to me like you either have monthly trueup and know it, or you don't understand how your net metering will work, and you have an incorrect notion of how things work that will cost you annual production and money.

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            • #21
              My net metering is most likely annual. I bank of anything I put into the utility, and usually use it up starting with November (usually done by Jan).

              I was able to spend some time on this lately (mostly dependent on construction that will support the panels)

              The solution I am leaning towards is the following:

              Add 24x310 = 7500W panels (will go on top of structures that is not house--custom made carport + firewood shed)
              Add Sol-Ark 8K Hybrid Inverter
              Connect existing 7.5 SolareEdge (6000) array to AC Coupling port (Sol-Ark can handle 13000W PV from string DC and AC Coupling)
              Leave 3.8 SolarEdge connected to Grid (goes offline when Grid goes offline)
              Add 11-22kW battery bank (the batteries they use are same Carbon technology as Oasis Firefly--deeper discharge and more cycles for the buck)
              Add generator outside of Sol-Ark, as it can act as "grid".
              Total equipment spend is about 17K, (12K w/o batteries). Panels are used REC310 72 cell, saving couple of grand on the project.
              The Sol-Ark has impressive specs. Frankly, thought it was a fringe product (EMP protection), but appears to be solid technology. Their batteries about almost half the price of Oasis Firefly per Ah.
              May go for smallest bank, if I can get away with it.
              May need to add a couple of Tigo optimizers for any shading issues.

              BTW, my existing arrays (9800W nameplate) peaked at 8500W generation a few days ago for a brief period..
              Last edited by NetComrade; 06-25-2019, 04:00 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by NetComrade View Post
                ..........
                Add generator outside of Sol-Ark, as it can act as "grid".
                .....
                When you say the generator can "act as grid" are you thinking of backup when the batteries are low and the sun is down or are you thinking you can AC couple it to control the Griid TieInverter? The later is likely not possible.
                Last edited by Ampster; 06-26-2019, 06:56 PM.
                9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ampster View Post

                  When you say the generator can "act as grid" are you thinking [..] you can AC couple it to control the Griid site Inverter? The later is likely not possible.
                  I thought that's the basic feature of AC coupling, generator or not, there is a battery attached that can regulate the AC Coupling breaker.

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                  • #24
                    AC coupling requires there be a place for the solar produced AC to go. You need a battery able to absorb the full power of the array.

                    Attempting to use a generator as a mini-grid and hope that your loads will always exceed your solar production works fine - UNTIL the solar produces more, and then your generator goes kaboom because it's not made to absorb any power from an outside source.
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                    • #25
                      Upon further reserch I decided to keep it simple

                      I will interlock existing critical panel with Sol-Ark.
                      I will use Sol-Ark Generator input as intended by inverter company.
                      I will share the generator input with a (new) "less critical" panel, which will also be interlocked with the generator.
                      I will NOT AC couple existing Solar. Basically, I will bolt on this whole system and make it stupid proof.
                      IF I never need to run "less critical load", I will probably be home and take generator off "autostart" and leave it on "on" and manually add "less critical load" to it. When electricity comes back, or "less critical load" is no longer needed, system can be taken off manual mode. See next post for rough picture.

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                      • #26
                        Here is a diagram. Most of existing system is drawn by pencil.(except for main panel).. Critical panel currently exists, but will have to be (re)wired to Sol-Ark
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by NetComrade; 07-05-2019, 08:41 PM.

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                        • #27
                          solar_2019_0908_diag.jpg
                          Latest diagram... Relatively simple.. Did not implement all the Manuel switches for "full house mode". Was pretty simple for DIY to add the Sol-Ark and batteries.. completely independent from StorEdge, and not worth connecting unless we have frequent lengthy outages.

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                          • #28
                            If anybody cares, been working good after i figured out settings and verified connections. Only had a minor power outage so far that I am aware of.. added 20-25kWh generation daily.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by NetComrade View Post
                              If anybody cares, been working good after i figured out settings and verified connections. Only had a minor power outage so far that I am aware of.. added 20-25kWh generation daily.
                              Thanks for the update. Are you doing any load shifting? What batteries did you settle on? I have heard good things about the Sol Ark. It comes in at about the same price point as my Outback Skybox but has a few more features.
                              Last edited by Ampster; 11-05-2019, 07:45 PM.
                              9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by NetComrade View Post
                                If anybody cares, been working good after i figured out settings and verified connections. Only had a minor power outage so far that I am aware of.. added 20-25kWh generation daily.
                                Thanks for the update. Are you doing any load shifting?
                                9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012

                                Comment

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