trying to monitor my Enphase iq7+ using a smart meter

[merkurmaniac]

So, I have a small Enphase system. 8 panels and 8 microinverters. It doesn't make sense to add the envoy-S-IQ for another $450 to monitor my system, as that would be a years production down the drain. So, I bought an Itron smart power meter on eBay. It was advertised as having a simple program that would tell cumulative kWhr, Instantaneous kW, and peak kW. I installed it between the array and my subpanel that I feed into. The cumulative reading works fine. But, I get two peak readings. No instantaneous reading at all. I wrote the seller and he was no help.

So, I bought a GE-i210+CE smart meter on eBay for $20. Supposed to be new. I plugged it into the socket and it gave me a "2 kWHr" and an "err" where the instantaneous current should be. I figured it was defective and asked to return it. He told me to just toss it. The manual describes an ERROR reading as an irreparable internal fault. I bought a third meter, brand new. It was the same GE model, and did exactly the same thing with the internal fault business. No way they are both bad, combined with the odd behavior on the first meter..... Urrrghhhh.

I am thinking that I have made an error, wiring wise, or that these meters cannot handle the eNphase stuff ??? The wiring looks really simple. I have the two a/c feeds coming in, and the same two leaving the other side of the meter. The smart power meters say "3-wire" but they just show the neutral going past the meter and have no connection for it.

Anyone have an idea of what gives ??

[NewBostonConst]

Sorry, sounds like you got it right. I monitor my total house consumption through our house smart meter from our power company. They provide an app with real time readings for like $3 per month. Doesn't tell array total production but our house usage is pretty constant so we can get close figuring it out.

We have a 7k system with 24 IQ7+'s. The cost for the enphase monitor is too much $.

[Ampster]

Do those devices use current clamps.? I have used the Sense and the Neurio which both have good phone apps and give you peaks instantaneously. They are several hundred dollars new but I found the Neurio used on EBay. They use clamps around your main sevice panel cable and around your solar wires in the breaker box. You have to be comfortable around electricity to attach the clamps and provide power to the devices with a separate breaker.

For less money you can try an interface with a Zigbee smart meter of you have a smart meter. These are called HAN devices and you have to go through a cumbersome registration process with your power company if they offer that service. They only show net power and you dont get a separate measure of solar output. The one I use is called Rainforest.

[ButchDeal]

Sorry, sounds like you got it right. I monitor my total house consumption through our house smart meter from our power company. They provide an app with real time readings for like $3 per month. Doesn't tell array total production but our house usage is pretty constant so we can get close figuring it out.

The utility net meter will not tell you the total house consumption by itself. You will need to perform some math with the production number at the same instant.

[merkurmaniac]

Mine is obviously a second meter that measures only the output of my system. My regular power meter is a smart meter that the utility enabled once I got my distributed generator permission to operate. It displays the net power that is exported (no payment back) to the grid. I have my total kWHr to date, just fine. But, what I would really like is to be able to stand there and see exactly how much power my system is producing AT THAT INSTANT. For some reason, that part is not working.

I looked hard at the Sense device. I just think that it really sucks that you cannot "teach" it devices, by having it "learn" by starting that device and having it observe. I know that it learns over time, but that seems real cumbersome.

I'll probably buy the Enphase Envoy, but I'll wait until the IQ8 comes out, since those look to be pretty game changing and, I am sure, will require a new Envoy then too.

My feed is into a sub panel that I can safely isolate and dig around in. I just added a 20 amp 1-pole breaker last night, for an instant water heater under my kitchen sink, in fact. So, wiring up a CT would be not too big a deal. I just went the smart power meter and socket route since it seems much more robust than the chinese junk I'd end up with from eBay or Amazon.

[Ampster]

.........

I looked hard at the Sense device. I just think that it really sucks that you cannot "teach" it devices, by having it "learn" by starting that device and having it observe. I know that it learns over time, but that seems real cumbersome.

I'll probably buy the Enphase Envoy, but I'll wait until the IQ8 comes out, since those look to be pretty game changing and, I am sure, will require a new Envoy then too.

My feed is into a sub panel that I can safely isolate and dig around in. I just added a 20 amp 1-pole breaker last night, for an instant water heater under my kitchen sink, in fact. So, wiring up a CT would be not too big a deal. I just went the smart power meter and socket route since it seems much more robust than the chinese junk I'd end up with from eBay or Amazon.

Yes I have the same complaint about the Sense. I does take forever for it to learn. Then when a device is recognized as a refrigerator I have to run around and unplug one of the refrigerator, wine cooler or turn off the breaker to the heat pump water heater to rename it more descriptively.
In the meantime there is a Neurio on Ebay currently for $100.Neurio has a good phone app and an interface with IFTTT so you can program it to send you a text or email when your solar production hits a predetermined set point. For what it is worth the Neurio is what the Tesla Powerwall uses for its current sensing to inform the various charging and discharging modes of the Powerwall. That being said, the product has not evolved much in the year I have owned it but it serves its limited purpose. This is a hobby for me so I don't measure ROI on information technology. LOL

[adoublee]

The smart power meters say "3-wire" but they just show the neutral going past the meter and have no connection for it.

Anyone have an idea of what gives ??

Even though the diagram shows the neutral passing through, I suspect it is being used by the meter for power or reference.

[bcroe]

Even though the diagram shows the neutral passing through, I suspect it is being used by the meter for power or reference.

It is common for the PoCo meter to make no connection to the neutral. It just assumes that
the load is balanced, including power factor. Bruce Roe

[merkurmaniac]

The meter doesn't seem to have any other connections on the back of it either, so that's perplexing.

[merkurmaniac]

OK, so I talked with a meter specialist and he (even though its not his meter) told me that he bets the meter is fine, and that my wiring is the problem. He thinks that the body of the meter socket is acting like its not grounded properly.

I think that the issue may be with how I wired my system. I have 8 panels and 8 IQ7 microinverters. The 2 AC conductors are obvious. They come from the microinverters and feed my system thru a sub-panel, passing thru the smart meter on the way to the sub panel.. The sub panel has a separate ground and neutral, since I believe that they are NOT to be bonded in a subpanel. So then the question is the ground. The IQ7 system and solar panels has a bare copper wire (I used a #6 conductor) that I ran that back to my sub-panel. My understanding is that its for lighting protection, and is a ground. In my case, it would be different than a neutral. The smart meter power socket is called a 3-wire setup and uses 2 hots and a neutral. The body of my meter is currently grounded to the sub panel ground.

Question is: Should my "lightning ground" just run back to the ground only at my main panel instead?... or is the sub-panel ground fine ? Both ?

Question 2: Should I add a "neutral" from the neutral bus in my sub panel to the smart meter socket and have that be its only connection ??

I have complicated things by using a sub-panel and a smart meter.

[Ampster]

Some 240v appliances use a neutral to pull a small 120v current to drive electronics. That may be your issue. My old Enphase inverters used 4 wires, two hots, a neutral and a ground. If your cable is like that and your meter has a spot for a neutral they should all be connected to the neutral buss bar in your subpanel.
Q1= Both should be grounded
Q2= Yes neutrals to subpanel from Enphase cable and meter.

[merkurmaniac]

The IQ7+ microinverters that I have utilize a pre-made cable that only has two conductors, L1 and L2. No neutral nor ground.

[Ampster]

The IQ7+ microinverters that I have utilize a pre-made cable that only has two conductors, L1 and L2. No neutral nor ground.

Okay so the neutral will only have to go from the meter to the sub panel. Hopefully that gets your meter working.

The lightning ground has to bond the racking, the PV panels and subpanels to the main service panel ground. I am not sure it needs to bond the additional meter but it can't hurt and may very well be code. Best to check.

[NewBostonConst]

You can't connect the neutral to the shell in the solar meter box. The body should be grounded and the neutral is pass through as you have stated. You can't connect them. The ground and the neutral can only be connected to in one place in your house which is called "bonding". It is likely "bonded" in your main breaker box. I would verify it is bonded there. It could be "bonded" in your incoming meter box but that isn't normal. If you are "bonded" in multiple places you can have the ground carrying current which isn't a good thing. Ground is for carrying current only in an fault condition, the neutral carries the current.

I would check the bond and other then that it sounds like you have it wired where the meter should work. This is for USA wiring methods, Europe is different.

[Ampster]

Yes you are correct about the connections for the ground and that is what I also implied. To be clear, the OP said his meter was three wire and I assumed it had a lug for the neutral and if his meter requires 120v to run his meter. He hasn't replied yet if that got the meter working.