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Very weird array behavior

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  • #16
    Wire nuts on the roof top J boxes, could be a source of higher resistance. Split bolts are better for wiring that runs many amps continuously (solar).
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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    • #17
      Thanks Mike90250 - my plan is to replace the wire nuts with terminal block like this: https://ressupply.com/electrical-dis...terminal-block

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      • #18
        Originally posted by bcroe View Post

        Your inverters may be "in parallel" with the PoCo. But the PoCo is so big they dominate the situation;
        your inverters must adjust. Also the voltage at your outlet probably drops when a big load (air cond)
        surges on. That is because all the wiring, etc between the high line and your outlet have resistance,
        so the increased current causes increased voltage drop in that resistance. When PV inverters push
        power back, this happens in reverse; your voltage goes up. Enough current, enough resistance, and
        a high PoCo line to begin with might reach the typical trip point of 264VAC. I don't know if that is
        the problem, but its common enough, check it out. Bruce Roe
        Aha. I know that there is line loss in any circuit, but it had not occurred to me that inverters would produce higher voltage in order to anticipate the loss that would occur in the path to the Grid.

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        • #19
          Instead of wet rated wire nuts (remember - outside Jbox is a wet location) I ended up using Polaris grays (IPLG6-3). Insert properly stripped wire into its own port and torque to 45 inch lbs - done. Repeat for every port. They come in a wide number of configurations and sizes - I used the 3 port #6 - #14 version. Only drawback - expensive! In the gray series there is a sleeve that compresses around the stranded wire giving excellent mechanical and electrical connection. The sleeve is single use only, if you mess up you need to use a new sleeve (they sell replacement sleeves)

          This is a different design than their black series that is for large gauge wires.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by brucet9 View Post
            Aha. I know that there is line loss in any circuit, but it had not occurred to me that inverters would produce higher voltage in order to anticipate the loss that would occur in the path to the Grid.
            "Anticipate" makes it sounds like there is some programming or design to this. There is not, it is just what happens based on Ohm's law and trying to push the energy in to the line.
            It is similar to how water pressure will increase if you restrict the the end of a garden hose.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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            • #21
              FYI, the latest Envoy firmware still has the same results on pvoutput - 5 minute data is duplicated for 15 minutes - giving a stair step on the graphs. I carefully looked at the data on the Enlighten page for my system and I can't figure if there is also a duplication error or not - seems to duplicate every other 5 mins but not every time interval. Only way to know for sure is to take the time and write a test app to pull some data from the Enphase API and look at it.

              Edit - Did a quick codeup of the Enphase API (Javascript - super simple), and after looking at the data returned, the Enphase API is clearly returning the same data for each 5 minute internal for 15 minutes. This happens not only for my actual system, but the test system Enphase gives you for testing API usage. Looks like I'll write up a bug for Enphase and see what they come up with.
              Last edited by tyab; 07-28-2017, 09:11 PM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by tyab View Post
                FYI, the latest Envoy firmware still has the same results on pvoutput - 5 minute data is duplicated for 15 minutes - giving a stair step on the graphs. I carefully looked at the data on the Enlighten page for my system and I can't figure if there is also a duplication error or not - seems to duplicate every other 5 mins but not every time interval. Only way to know for sure is to take the time and write a test app to pull some data from the Enphase API and look at it.

                Edit - Did a quick codeup of the Enphase API (Javascript - super simple), and after looking at the data returned, the Enphase API is clearly returning the same data for each 5 minute internal for 15 minutes. This happens not only for my actual system, but the test system Enphase gives you for testing API usage. Looks like I'll write up a bug for Enphase and see what they come up with.
                The change of Enphase reporting to 15 minute resolution is intentional. Apparently for cost savings reason. It looks like all standalone inverter companies are facing tougher future as panel vendors integrate inverters into their panel modules.

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                • #23
                  Wondering if there was ever a resolution to this problem. I've just discovered my M250's are doing something similar. As sun gets to midday and output wattage gets up close to 200W they start to randomly drop off to 20W, sometimes for only 5 minutes, sometimes for an hour or more. Seems to happen randomly across the array when power output is above a certain level. Enphase told me it was a comms issue with high frequency noise but it persists when all breakers in the panel are off except the inverter feed ins and dedicated outlet for the Envoy. Wondering if anyone has seen anything similar and has any ideas on troubleshooting. Line voltage is solid at 247 and frequency is right at 60hz. Temp is around 60F. 285W panels.

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                  • #24
                    This image goes with the previous post.
                    Screen Shot 2018-04-02 at 3.37.47 PM.png

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                    • #25
                      I saw things like this when I first completed my system - it was the Envoy losing communication with the micro's. The micros were still generating - so it was just a reporting issue. Use the Enphase installers toolkit mobile app, and look at the logs for micro when it "appears" to not be generating - those logs will give you a good idea what is happening. My problem was very specific to my installation - excessive distance - and I fixed it by removing that distance. There was a post on this forum from someone I think in November 2015 that talked about their issue and they ended up installing a power line filter to isolate the Enphase branch from the house (and grid) - naturally the Envoy needs to be on the same side as the micro's. Search for it (I don't have the link) or maybe someone here can repost a link.

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                      • #26

                        Originally posted by saminak60 View Post
                        Wondering if there was ever a resolution to this problem. I've just discovered my M250's are doing something similar. As sun gets to midday and output wattage gets up close to 200W they start to randomly drop off to 20W, sometimes for only 5 minutes, sometimes for an hour or more. Seems to happen randomly across the array when power output is above a certain level. Enphase told me it was a comms issue with high frequency noise but it persists when all breakers in the panel are off except the inverter feed ins and dedicated outlet for the Envoy. Wondering if anyone has seen anything similar and has any ideas on troubleshooting. Line voltage is solid at 247 and frequency is right at 60hz. Temp is around 60F. 285W panels.

                        OP here. I'm still seeing that same panel drop and I'm not sure if it's the panel or microinverter. The DC current is close to zero so I'm wondering if that's a panel issue? Did you figure out resolve your problem?

                        Screen Shot 2018-06-28 at 3.18.08 PM.png

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                        • #27
                          So I'm seeing a similar 11am-ish drop off with 2 of my 300w panels with M250 inverters installed in August 2015. The odd thing is this issue starts in the middle of October and lasts through to the middle of March. Then all panels start producing normally throughout the summer until the next October. Recently got access to Enlighten Manager and found that this has been happening since the system was installed. Don't think it's a reporting issue because what Enlighten reports for production matches up to what my whole house monitoring system says is being produced.

                          Did the OP get yours fixed? Find out if it was the inverter, panel or something else? I tried contacting the installer but the people I dealt with are no longer there and haven't heard back yet. So I might need to find another installer to help.

                          Thanks for any info. Trying to arm myself with as much knowledge before talking with the installers.

                          2018-11-08 11_21_11-Window.jpg
                          Last edited by gene1138; 11-08-2018, 01:13 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gene1138 View Post
                            The odd thing is this issue starts in the middle of October and lasts through to the middle of March. Then all panels start producing normally throughout the summer until the next October.
                            Is there any shade on those two panels? Sun being lower in the sky and all that.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by philips View Post

                              Is there any shade on those two panels? Sun being lower in the sky and all that.
                              On this particular panel it is in full sun until much later in the afternoon. The other panel gets a little shade but not that i think to drop to 14 watts.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by gene1138 View Post

                                On this particular panel it is in full sun until much later in the afternoon. The other panel gets a little shade but not that i think to drop to 14 watts.
                                Maybe, my panels drop to about that when trees shade them. As far as only one of them being in shade, are you sure the enlighten layout was done correctly?



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