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  • SolarEdge DC Isolation Fault diagnosed as comm board failure - is that possible?

    EDIT: Discovered the problem was the DC disconnect got filled with water somehow.

    June 4th, my SolarEdge 7600 inverter began reporting Error 25, (2x19), Isolation Fault and stopped producing AC power. Diagnostics on the inverter LCD shows:

    R Iso[KOhm]: 156.8
    [------------------------*]
    DC+ DC-
    100.0%

    where resistance between DC and ground is reported as 156kOhm when it needs to be over 600. A couple days later it showed 86kOhm and today it shows 28kOhm.

    I sent all this info to my solar installer (including a link to pictures and videos) who contacted SolarEdge who somehow diagnosed it as a communication board fault and sent out a comm board via the slowest 7-10 business day shipping method available. Is it even conceivable that a comm board could cause an isolation fault or am I doomed to wait however many days for them to send someone out only to find it does nothing to fix the problem, followed by another 7-10 business days for another part?

    The SolarEdge web portal continues to work and shows it's generating no power, but it does show the panels providing DC volts and other live info, so it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with the comm board at all. Only odd thing is the portal always shows "Inverter Status: Starting" and "Last Isolation Value [KOhm]: 0".

    Is there anything I can do to speed this up? Is it worth contacting SolarEdge directly?
    Last edited by GoldenDragon; 06-26-2017, 10:40 PM.

  • #2
    With a 7600, you must have two strings. Try disconnecting one string, see if the fault clears, and then plug that string back in and try disconnecting the other. If you don't know how to do this safely, don't do it.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

    Comment


    • #3
      I would wait till total darkness, then disconnect both wires of each string from anything else. When the sun
      comes up, I'd take a lower impedance volt meter, or wire a 1 meg resistor across the inputs. Connect one
      lead to ground, probe the leads of all the strings. The strings that tend to drift down to 0VDC are OK, the
      string giving a hard voltage reading on both leads is leaking to ground. Likely those 2 voltages will be
      different; the fault is closer to the lead with the lower reading. Bruce Roe

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sensij View Post
        With a 7600, you must have two strings. Try disconnecting one string, see if the fault clears, and then plug that string back in and try disconnecting the other. If you don't know how to do this safely, don't do it.
        Thanks for the suggestion. I looked through SolarEdge's guide for troubleshooting a ground fault and watched a couple videos that made it clear turning off the little red switch below the inverter would tell the power optimizers to cut voltage down to 1V each. After the display showed panels producing 12V, I took DC voltage measurements between screws and the ground rod as an extra precaution (all 0V), then unscrewed the cover of the DC disconnect and... WATER POURED OUT!

        I don't know how the heck water got in there but hopefully the installer won't have too tough a time figuring it out. The water was slightly bubbly and making a fizzing sound like soda on the concrete which I'm guessing might have to do with it absorbing metal or something from inside the box? After draining, isolation reads nearly 2000kOhms and the inverter was willing to produce AC power again. The SolarEdge web portal now reads "Last Isolation Value [KOhm]: 2,252.05" (so why did it read 0 instead of 28 with water in the box?)

        Really, f'ing, weird.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by GoldenDragon View Post
          After the display showed panels producing 12V, I took DC voltage measurements between screws and the ground rod as an extra precaution (all 0V), then unscrewed the cover of the DC disconnect and... WATER POURED OUT!

          I don't know how the heck water got in there but hopefully the installer won't have too tough a time figuring it out.
          The water was slightly bubbly and making a fizzing sound like soda on the concrete
          So you were trying to take water apart, good thing the gases didn't explode. My installer put some boxes
          practically under my downspout, and below the snow line. Later I moved them to a safer loc. Bruce Roe

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bcroe View Post

            So you were trying to take water apart, good thing the gases didn't explode. My installer put some boxes
            practically under my downspout, and below the snow line. Later I moved them to a safer loc. Bruce Roe
            You think it was splitting water to hydrogen and oxygen? Luckily the wire conduit runs up to an AC disconnect that is far from air tight, so any gasses generated should have been able to escape.

            I'd still love to know just how incompetent my solar installer was to diagnose this as a comm board failure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an isolation fault is almost always a problem in the wires caused by animals chewing them or water infiltration. An isolation fault in the inverter itself is the least-likely explanation, so pursuing a warranty claim with SolarEdge strikes me as piss-poor troubleshooting at best, or a delay tactic to avoid sending out an electrician at worst. Since the Iso fault diagnostic read 100%, I think that indicates the fault is at the end of the line (in or near the inverter), so maybe it's not so unreasonable to suspect an inverter fault? Still, why suspect the communication board?
            Last edited by GoldenDragon; 06-27-2017, 11:50 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GoldenDragon View Post
              I'd still love to know just how incompetent my solar installer was to diagnose this as a comm board failure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an isolation fault is almost always a problem in the wires caused by animals chewing them or water infiltration. An isolation fault in the inverter itself is the least-likely explanation, so pursuing a warranty claim with SolarEdge strikes me as piss-poor troubleshooting at best, or a delay tactic to avoid sending out an electrician at worst. Am I right?
              I think you are on top of it now, and much wiser. Bruce Roe

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes, when the advice you get from a free, semi-anonymous forum is better than what your installer gives you, it does not reflect well on your installer. Neither does installing a system in a way that encourages water to collect in the inverter disconnect.
                CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GoldenDragon View Post

                  You think it was splitting water to hydrogen and oxygen? Luckily the wire conduit runs up to an AC disconnect that is far from air tight, so any gasses generated should have been able to escape.

                  I'd still love to know just how incompetent my solar installer was to diagnose this as a comm board failure. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an isolation fault is almost always a problem in the wires caused by animals chewing them or water infiltration. An isolation fault in the inverter itself is the least-likely explanation, so pursuing a warranty claim with SolarEdge strikes me as piss-poor troubleshooting at best, or a delay tactic to avoid sending out an electrician at worst. Am I right?
                  I'm not trying to kicking a guy when he's down. Looks like you got burned by a vendor in what might be a dangerous situation and that sucks. One way or another it'll get squared away.

                  But looking back to a prior thread, seems like what you're discovering what was discussed in that prior thread and lots of others about what can perhaps happen when initial price low price takes priority over choosing a vendor with some due diligence and perhaps paying a bit more per Watt as a result.

                  The vendor was LA Solar Group @ $3.25/Watt w/ a panel upgrade, right ?

                  FWIW, this may also say something about the wisdom of putting a whole lot of confidence or faith in stuff like BBB, Yelp, and other vendor "rating" sites and organizations as you mentioned having checked (your 09/01/2016 post).

                  Readers considering solar take note. Caveat Emptor, use professionals, practice due diligence and take what you may read/hear from others with skin in the game,or from sites that sell advertising space to those being reviewed, with a fair amount of skepticism.

                  Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Have you figured out how the water came in? With all my outdoor entrances to boxes at
                    the bottom, that's about impossible. Bruce Roe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We had one like this but it was coming through the conduit from the MSP. The water was hitting the MSP from a bent gutter, running through the MSP, into the conduit and down to the inverter disconnect.

                      You see some strange things sometimes.
                      OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                        But looking back to a prior thread, seems like what you're discovering what was discussed in that prior thread and lots of others about what can perhaps happen when initial price low price takes priority over choosing a vendor with some due diligence and perhaps paying a bit more per Watt as a result.

                        The vendor was LA Solar Group @ $3.25/Watt w/ a panel upgrade, right ?

                        FWIW, this may also say something about the wisdom of putting a whole lot of confidence or faith in stuff like BBB, Yelp, and other vendor "rating" sites and organizations as you mentioned having checked (your 09/01/2016 post).

                        Readers considering solar take note. Caveat Emptor, use professionals, practice due diligence and take what you may read/hear from others with skin in the game,or from sites that sell advertising space to those being reviewed, with a fair amount of skepticism.
                        Yes, it's LA Solar. If you can tell me what I should trust other than ridiculously high ratings and no negatives found on forums, please do. They have a 5.0 rating based on 129 yelp reviews, 5.0 with 6 reviews at solarreviews, 5.0 with 13 reviews at Buildzoom, and 4.6 with 5 reviews (all 4 and 5 star) at guildquality. Every company has a few negative reviews, including LA Solar, but no other company has as low a percentage of negatives. I did read all their negative reviews and found nothing too horrible. Maybe they're gaming the review system somehow (I know they encourage people to post reviews after installation), but I found no complaints about LA Solar on forums, or on any other review site, and they can't game/control every site. Glassdoor shows their employees rate them 4.7 stars and usually when a company is good to work for, it's good to customers. Their price was $3.47/W with main panel upgrade ($3.25/W without) which is pretty average compared to other quotes I got and read about on here, so I wasn't bargain hunting. The person I worked with during negotiations/install was by far the best amongst companies I contacted when it came to answering all my questions and answering them fully. There's literally nothing I can think of that would have indicated I had anything to worry about before I signed the contract. Maybe you have a crystal ball I can rent next time?

                        One thing I didn't know before I signed is they offer $500 to customers that refer other customers. I think that's above average in the industry (a quick search turns up $200 to $1435 referral bonus range) and that might discourage negative reviews from people who want the referral bonus, but then again, is everyone really hiding bad experiences to get that referral bonus and who cares if the friend they referred gets screwed? Seems unlikely.

                        I'm definitely not at all pleased with their customer service on this repair. I was told a stomach flu had put half their staff out of commission and everything was behind, and I'm hoping that's the reason they've been so poor at giving me updates without me calling/emailing to bug them. But that excuse does not explain why they diagnosed my problem as a communication board other than they probably rushed the analysis and the engineer didn't look at what I sent them. I'm still waiting to hear back from one of their actual engineers with an explanation. He was supposed to contact me today but it's looking unlikely. The other problem is I'm outside their usual service area so sending someone to look at the system is at least a 4 hour round trip with LA traffic. I'm not sure about that excuse either because at one point they sent a local electrician up to get some final bits done a couple days after their main team did the install. Main team was great, BTW, and lead electrician seemed very sharp.

                        Once we find out how water is getting in, I'll judge if the install was incompetent or some bizarre mistake and post a review accordingly.

                        The metal conduit looks like this:



                        I assume the points where conduit screws together are using rubber gaskets to keep out water. The place where the threads are rusted coming out of the AC disconnect seems suspicious but I put an inspection camera in it and I think I see a black gasket. Maybe they forgot one somewhere in the line? The AC disconnect shows no evidence of water inside, and the pipe coming out its left is higher than the bottom of the disconnect anyway. The pipe to the left runs from the DC disconnect up into the roof from under the eve and comes out a hole in the top of the roof into a box leading to the panels. That all looks well sealed and has no water in it.
                        Last edited by GoldenDragon; 06-28-2017, 01:36 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GoldenDragon View Post

                          Yes, it's LA Solar. If you can tell me what I should trust other than a 5.0 rating based on 129 reviews, please do. Every company has a few negative reviews, including LA Solar, but none have as low a percentage of negatives. I did read all their negative reviews and found nothing too horrible. Maybe they're gaming the review system somehow (I know they encourage people to post reviews after installation), but I found no complaints about LA Solar on forums, or on any other review site, and they can't game/control every site. Glassdoor shows their employees rate them 4.7 stars and usually when a company is good to work for, it's good to customers. Their price was $3.47/W with main panel upgrade ($3.25/W without) which is pretty average compared to other quotes I got and read about on here, so I wasn't bargain hunting. The person I worked with during negotiations/install was by far the best amongst companies I contacted when it came to answering all my questions and answering them fully. There's literally nothing I can think of that would have indicated I had anything to worry about before I signed the contract. Maybe you have a crystal ball I can rent next time?

                          I'm definitely not at all pleased with their customer service on this repair. I was told a stomach flu had put half their staff out of commission and everything was behind, and I'm hoping that's the reason they've been so poor at giving me updates without me calling/emailing to bug them. But that excuse does not explain why they diagnosed my problem as a communication board other than they probably rushed the analysis and the engineer didn't look at what I sent them. I'm still waiting to hear back from one of their actual engineers with an explanation. He was supposed to contact me today but it's looking unlikely. The other problem is I'm outside their usual service area so sending someone to look at the system is at least a 4 hour round trip with LA traffic. I'm not sure about that excuse either because at one point they sent a local electrician up to get some final bits done a couple days after their main team did the install. Main team was great, BTW, and lead electrician seemed very sharp.

                          Once we find out how water is getting in, I'll judge if the install was incompetent or some bizarre mistake and post a review accordingly.

                          The metal conduit looks like this:

                          I assume the points where conduit screws together are using rubber gaskets to keep out water. The place where the threads are rusted coming out of the AC disconnect seems suspicious but I assume it should have a gasket too. Maybe they forgot one somewhere? The AC disconnect shows no evidence of water inside, and the pipe is higher than the bottom of the disconnect anyway. The second pipe runs into the roof and comes out a hole into a box and that all looks well sealed and has no water in it.
                          I can't tell you who to trust any more than I can make your judgments. I am suggesting that what looks like a lot of trust in unvetted web sites may not have been warranted.

                          I'm also suggesting that it's possible to spend more $$ up front and still get screwed.

                          But, from what sounds like going with low buck over most bang for the buck while using what's mostly unverifiable information from mostly anonymous sources on sites that sell advertising as a substitute for due diligence doesn't sound to me like the best way to go.

                          Look, I'm sorry you got what sounds like a bad deal, and I'm very hopeful it gets straightened out. Honest.

                          Maybe other's reading this who are shopping for PV can take a lesson and be a bit more skeptical of what others tell them about vendors, and spend the time to get informed, and maybe be a bit more skeptical of what they're told or what they read.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                            Maybe other's reading this who are shopping for PV can take a lesson and be a bit more skeptical of what others tell them about vendors, and spend the time to get informed, and maybe be a bit more skeptical of what they're told or what they read.
                            I really have no idea what you're suggesting here, J.P.M. Other than looking at a variety of review sites, forums, and talking to reps at the company, who or what do you think people should trust? What, exactly, is your definition of due diligence? What would you have done differently?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GoldenDragon View Post

                              I really have no idea what you're suggesting here, J.P.M. Other than looking at a variety of review sites, forums, and talking to reps at the company, who or what do you think people should trust? What, exactly, is your definition of due diligence? What would you have done differently?
                              FWIW, and since you ask, I believe people would be better off putting more effort into their own education and a lot less trust in what they slothfully take as gospel simply because someone speaks it or writes it. That, and keeping an eye on what vendors are doing on and to your property may constitute some of what I'd think is necessary for due diligence.

                              I don't know what you or anyone else did, so I can't say what I'd have done differently. I know what I did to get a safe and fit for PV system on my property. I suspect I did more than most, but in my opinion I did no less than necessary.

                              I'm not ragging on you. Even with all reasonable efforts at playing heads' up ball and good project management and vendor surveillance, what happened to you could and does happen to everyone, me included. I'm only suggesting, as I've already written, that while bad stuff can always happed, the probability of bad stuff happening is likely to be less with more attention to details and better vendor and job monitoring during execution, and that what happened to you may be a teaching moment for others who may be considering solar. No more. No less. Take it as your needs and opinions dictate, or ignore it as you see fit.

                              What I wrote was done more for others considering solar than for you. You're on your way to a solution.
                              Last edited by J.P.M.; 06-28-2017, 12:32 PM.

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