Two "free" solar panels

[littleharbor]

If I'm reading your post correctly you have the inverter connected to the CC. The load out from the inverter is only for small loads, not an inverter. Connect the inverter to the battery and nothing but the battery..

[Cajun Bill]

Little Harbor: Oh boy, now I'm really confused. I thought the "load" terminals on the CC were for the inverter. If not, that explains why the inverter didn't work.

SK, Just to make sure you understand what I'm saying, when I checked the voltage from the PV going into the CC, it was 32V, but now that I'm thinking about it, that was before I terminated the PV wires to the CC (I think). I'm not seeing 32V OUT of the CC, I'm seeing a little over 12V depending on how charged the battery was which, because it (the battery) was brand new, was about 13.1V if I remember correctly. Is it possible that you misread my post, i.e. that the voltage on the "load" terminals was 25V not .25V?

Okay, can someone give me a diagram of how all my pieces should be connected? I thought I had one already, but if the inverter does not go through the CC, then I'm totally confused. Please have patience with this newbie.

[Sunking]

Little Harbor: Oh boy, now I'm really confused. I thought the "load" terminals on the CC were for the inverter. If not, that explains why the inverter didn't work..

Hell no never use the LOAD Terminal. The LOAD Terminal is worthless and only used for very small loads of a few amps like 5 amps maximum. Do not use the Load Terminal for anything other than a means to build a high current LVD circuit. Look at my drawing and follow it to the letter. If you do not fully understand ASK QUESTIONS. Only use the Charge Controller Main Output. DO NOT USE THE LOAD FOR ANYTHING?

Understand?

Listen to SK he will save your life and money.

FWIW the LOAD Terminal on Charge Controllers is a small Low Voltage Disconnect intended to be used on something small like a LED Night Light. In the event the battery voltage gets to low, it disconnects the battery. It is only for very small wattage devices of a few amps. Never intended for real power like an Inverter pulling 100 amps.

Okay, can someone give me a diagram of how all my pieces should be connected?

Already did that in post 75. Just Ignore the Green wires and AC Panel. What i sleftt is exactly how it should be wired. But here it is again in words.

1. Connect Inverter Output directly to the battery Term post with a fuse to protect the wire between Controller and Battery. Fuse is connected directly to battery. Term Post

2. Connect Inverter directly to battery Term Post through a fuse. Again fuse is connected directly to battery Term Post.

Do not deviate. One thing you must do is connect the charge controller to battery and Inverter to Battery first and get them working properly before you connect the Panels to the controller. Remember Panels are the Last thing connected, the the First thing to be disconnected. As soon as you connect the battery to the controller and plug in the fuse, the Inverter will come to life, read the battery voltage and program itself. Wai tuntil it is done and your Inverter is working, then connect the panels.

Here are excellent Battery Fuse Blocks to use on the battery Term Post. I advise to use the dual Fuse Blocks and buy two of them, one for each Term Post and 4 MRB fuses of appropriate size. Gaurantees a extremely safe and sane system.

[Cajun Bill]

Okay, comprendo SK. Guess what fooled me was the fact that the "load" terminals were the same size as the panel and battery terminals, i.e. large enough to handle a 2AWG wire. I'm still shipping the Tracer back because I want the capacity to grow the system which I can do with the Morningstar.

On another note, would you have a recommendations for a switch on the panel wire? Presently, I have the panels leaning up against my house until I'm sure I have everything wired correctly and then I will move them up to the roof of my shop. I've been unplugging and plugging the panel connector, but once I get them on the roof, the only way to disconnect them will be to remove the wire from the CC. Just wondering what the "norm" is for that.

[Mike90250]

It is very handy to have a DC switch on the panels, so you can easily work with the charge controller without pulling wires off it , while energized. I just uses a spare port in my combiner box:
20160821_132247cc.jpg

[Cajun Bill]

Update on this newbie: Finally got everything working today. Made final connections about 3 pm today and PV started charging the batts at about 13V at 5A. Tried inverter and it's putting out, but I switched it off until I could determine if everything's cool for now. Panels are leaning up against the house right now and while they are getting a pretty good view of the southern sky, they are somewhat shaded right now. As soon as I can round up my neighbors, I will put them on the roof of my shop and they'll have a much better view of Mr. Sol. Thanks to all and a special thanks to grouchy old SunKing for putting up with me. Sun Eagle and Mike, y'all were great (and not half as grouchy) 😘

[Sunking]

Thanks to all and a special thanks to grouchy old SunKing for putting up with me. ;

Glad to help, hope you learned something.

[Cajun Bill]

SK, yes, I learned a lot thanks to you and others like Sun Eagle. I definitely learned that a system with batteries is ridiculously expensive (as you so eloquently advised me and others many times, both in answers to this post and others and also in your stickys which I have found very useful BTW). IMHO, the only way a battery backup system can be justified is as a "prepper strategy" or possibly if one is confined to the backwoods of Alaska with no commercial power available (but you already know that, of course). Now, I have a couple of other questions that you will probably find naive, but I've got to ask them of the group anyway (guess I'm a glutton for punishment).

In my present project, I will probably, judiciously, soon purchase two more 6V GC2 batteries along with a Samplex 24V inverter. I figure that might be enough to be able to temporarily run my beloved beer fridge and/or game freezer for some period of time during the daylight hours when Mr. Sol is shining (not all the time because in looking at SK's stickys, I would really need about 6-8 more GC2 batteries to make that work over night along with at least two more 280W panels). So here are my questions, is there a transfer switch that is not prohibitively expensive that could be wired to switch the load to POCO power once the batteries reach a low level? Second question: Is this inverter what y'all would consider a decent 24V inverter:

http://www.donrowe.com/Samlex-PSE-24175A-p/pse-24175a.htm

[Cajun Bill]

Tried to edit my previous post, but since I inserted a link, it's not approved yet. Just thought of another question, from looking at SK's sticky regarding battery maintenance, it looks like I'll need an AC batt charger so I can properly maintain my batteries to extend their life. I have a trickle charger that I use to keep my trolling motor batteries charged, but it appears I'll need something with more amperage to properly equalize and desulfate my batteries. Looking for a recommendation for that also if it's not too much trouble.

BTW SK, I just ordered a temp compensated hydrometer as you suggested in your sticky so I'm trying to dot all the "i's" and cross the "t's".

[Sunking]

Cajun remind me again what your objective is.

[Cajun Bill]

Cajun remind me again what your objective is.

😇 As I suspect you have surmised already, that original objective has radically changed. Originally, my thought was to take my two "free" solar panels and connect them up so as to run my beer fridge and game freezer off grid to save some $$ and at the same time learn a bit about solar systems (not the planetary kind). I thought I could get a payback of 5-7 years, but after strategizing over your comments that the cost of the batteries made that objective ridiculous, I graduated to another school of thought. The first part of that objective has been "deep sixed" and I have added to the second part with a bit of "prepper" strategy in order to rationalize my expenditures somewhat (in case my "spousal unit" ever checks the cc bill). Now it has become a bit of a hobby combined with the learning experience and I'm okay with that. Hope that explains it even though it doesn't make any economic sense.

p.s. My new goal is just to get the system sized correctly to keep the beer cold and the game frozen during the day and probably switch to POCO at night. I know, I know, it doesn't make economic sense, but I'm willing to pay for the knowledge. Kinda like my experiment with aquaponics, I ended up with two meals of fried perch for my three months long efforts. Damn, those perch tasted good! lol

[Sunking]

Yes I knew the ship had changed course. Guilty. Just needed to know where it is going to offer a tip.

How about a Poor Man's aka Macgyver UPS for the meat Freezer.? Man I sure miss good ole USDA Choice Beef. You have no idea how good American beef is until you can't have it.

Sorry about that, got distracted,, back to the UPS and Freezer. Get a handle on two numbers, at least one and I can guess the other OK, but how many watts does the Fridge use when running, and would be great to know how many watt hours in a 24 hour period but that take a meter to find out.

So it is real simple you buy a 12 or 24 volt Power Supply or Charger capable running the Fridge and charge the Battery at the same time when and if needed. Then an appropriate sized Inverter made for continuous use. You plug the charger into a receptacle and it powers the freezer via the Inverter.

AC Charger > Battery > Inverter > Freezer.

Size the battery to something useful like enough to get you through say 2 full days. When all hooked up the battery stays fully charged floating and waiting to go in service when the power fails. If power fails batteries are already on line ready to go, and the Inverter and Freezer do not care where the power comes from. When power comes back on the battery recharges.

If chit hit the fan and power will be out longer than the batteries can hold, pull out a generator to recharge the batteries. Run generator early in the morning before sun comes up and does the bulk charging, then solar if you want to extend battery run time.

[Cajun Bill]

Yes I knew the ship had changed course. Guilty. Just needed to know where it is going to offer a tip.

How about a Poor Man's aka Macgyver UPS for the meat Freezer.? Man I sure miss good ole USDA Choice Beef. You have no idea how good American beef is until you can't have it.

Sorry about that, got distracted,, back to the UPS and Freezer. Get a handle on two numbers, at least one and I can guess the other OK, but how many watts does the Fridge use when running, and would be great to know how many watt hours in a 24 hour period but that take a meter to find out.

So it is real simple you buy a 12 or 24 volt Power Supply or Charger capable running the Fridge and charge the Battery at the same time when and if needed. Then an appropriate sized Inverter made for continuous use. You plug the charger into a receptacle and it powers the freezer via the Inverter.

AC Charger > Battery > Inverter > Freezer.

Size the battery to something useful like enough to get you through say 2 full days. When all hooked up the battery stays fully charged floating and waiting to go in service when the power fails. If power fails batteries are already on line ready to go, and the Inverter and Freezer do not care where the power comes from. When power comes back on the battery recharges.

If chit hit the fan and power will be out longer than the batteries can hold, pull out a generator to recharge the batteries. Run generator early in the morning before sun comes up and does the bulk charging, then solar if you want to extend battery run time.

I used a KAW awhile back and found that the freezer uses 1.87kw/day and the fridge uses 1.43kw/day. Sticker on the freezer indicates it needs 5.1 amps, don't know about fridge. I like your concept in that it allows me to use my system for something other than an object of beauty and I had about decided to purchase a charger anyway to keep my batts conditioned (after reading your sticky on "killing batteries"). What about my suggestion regarding some type of transfer switch that would kick in when the batts get too low. My simple mind tells me that would allow the panels to supply the freezer and/or fridge when Mr. Sol is pumping out rays, then the batts would take over and then switch to POCO when batts get too low. Couldn't a low voltage disconnect be the triggering mechanism for that? Is that feasible or is that another boondoggle cuz of expenses?

In any event, do you have a recommendation for a charger? I'm pretty sure the Samlex 24V inverter I linked to would work for the inverter and I also found a Samlex charger that seems it would work, but I've got to run the numbers on each before committing.

[Cajun Bill]

Okay, Update: I now have 4 GC2 6V batteries wired in series along with a 24V Samlex MSW inverter and two 280W PV panels along with a Morningstar 45A MPPT CC. Everything is working fine so far. I have been able to easily run the Fridge and Freezer all day with no problems, then I convert to POCO in the evening by manually unplugging from the inverter and plugging into POCO. Next step: For the last two (very sunny) days, I have tried "sans Sol" (by switching off the PV panels) during the day with some success. Yesterday, I powered just the fridge for seven hours at the end of which, the batts were down to about 60%. Today, I ran both the fridge and freezer for seven hours at the end of which the batts were down to just over 50%. (As a reminder, my load amounts to just over 3KW/day.) On both occasions, I reconnected to POCO for the evening and switched back on the PV's (which didn't have time to recharge until the next am when I let them run until the batts were back to 100%).

My next step seems to be to purchase 4 more GC2 6V batts and wire them in series then // them to the other bank to keep the voltage at 24V which, when fully charged, should provide enough power to supply both the fridge and freezer overnight assuming I can get them recharged the next day while they run the load simultaneously (if the sun conditions are ideal).

Okay, here are my questions, I don't think my two PV panels will suffice to provide enough wattage to charge all batts, especially on poor sun days, in time to switch over to the batts at night. Therefore, I suspect that I will either need to equip my system with at least two more panels with similar wattage outputs and/or obtain a 24V charger to provide a backup. In fact, in reading SunKing's stickys, I suspect I will need a 24V charger in any event if for no other reason than to be better able to keep from killing my batts and also as a backup on poor sun days (especially during the winter months.) What say the group?

Another question, I also ask the group to help me make another decision: Do I purchase two more panels now or wait to see if the present panels are sufficient to recharge all 8 batts (on good days)? Or do I purchase a 24V charger and if so, which one? I have looked at the Samlex chargers and they look good, but I don't know if I should get the 15A version, the 25A version or even higher?

Any input will be very much appreciated.

[Cajun Bill]

"do I purchase a 24V charger and if so, which one? I have looked at the Samlex chargers and they look good, but I don't know if I should get the 15A version, the 25A version or even higher?"

Hoping someone will soon respond to my question. As info, I ordered a 24V Samlex 15A charger that should arrive soon, but before I put it into service, I was wondering if anyone could comment as to whether or not they believe the 15A is large enough. If the consensus is that it is too small, I can return it before I use it and order larger. Sun King, you out there? I think I saw where you're back from Florida.