Enphase Envoy-S Metered

[Engineer]

I'm having a Envoy-S metered put in my 1 week old system, unfortunately I didn't know about it and my installer never did one before so we're adding it after the Envoy-S was already installed. BTW if anybody wants a 1 week old Envoy-S for a good price ping me.

Has anybody installed one? The design is two CT's (current taps) on the two main house phases, and a CT on the solar array output. A curious thing is the production CT - don't they know already what that is? My installer said they don't know the generation 'accurately', I assume he means it doesn't account for system losses. At any rate measuring the actual output line is the best.

The Enphase rep made a big deal about the fact that it only measures net grid usage not gross. Obviously so because they can't measure how much of the solar is consumed by the house, but a simple sum (or difference) of the grid and solar currents will tell you that.

[sensij]

Your understanding sounds correct. For calculating gross consumption, it is best to have all measurements made simultaneously... you won't get that from inverter reported values, but the CT's can be good.

[Engineer]

Great point, the inverters are giving an averaged output probably and not instantaneous; they need to be measured at the same time. Makes sense now.

[Engineer]

One bit, it appears that the Metered version was created specifically for the upcoming Enphase Storage system. Batteries basically, and the metered Envoy can watch your usage and during times of the day you choose bleed power from the batteries to balance the solar (say in the evening in California on the near peak TOU). If your utility is really a jerk you can even have it turn off panels so as to send effectively nothing to the grid, all while enjoying solar at home.

[Engineer]

It's been installed and I've used it for a week or two. I love it. There are a variety of ways to measure your usage and consumption but this one beautifully combines them together. Meter readers, like Rainforest Automation don't provide a great integration feature. That is they show spiky usage, whereas the Enphase shows in 15 minute integrated blocks which is what I usually use. If I want to see instantaneous then I look at the Envoy web page it is serving up which shows that on 3s-5s intervals.

Well worth it IMO. A buddy also installed one and is surprised at the amount of data it collects.

[sensij]

It's been installed and I've used it for a week or two. I love it. There are a variety of ways to measure your usage and consumption but this one beautifully combines them together. Meter readers, like Rainforest Automation don't provide a great integration feature. That is they show spiky usage, whereas the Enphase shows in 15 minute integrated blocks which is what I usually use. If I want to see instantaneous then I look at the Envoy web page it is serving up which shows that on 3s-5s intervals.

Well worth it IMO. A buddy also installed one and is surprised at the amount of data it collects.

Rainforest Automation doesn't provide great integration? What? The options they provide for either pushing or pulling data are incredible. Send your data directly to PVOutput, or through Wattvision, and you can see it smoothed out by whatever time increment you like.

I agree that a single system collecting and reporting both consumption and generation is usually better at synchronizing the two, which took a few iterations of code to get working (most of the time) for my own system.

[Engineer]

Rainforest Automation doesn't provide great integration?

Default interface, yes I agree you can get the data and massage it any way you want, as with the Enphase system. Most consumers don't care at all (just show me the bill), but for those who do I think the Enphase Enlighten is the most accessible. People like us are a minority of a minority

[solardreamer]

Rainforest Automation doesn't provide great integration? What? The options they provide for either pushing or pulling data are incredible. Send your data directly to PVOutput, or through Wattvision, and you can see it smoothed out by whatever time increment you like.

I agree that a single system collecting and reporting both consumption and generation is usually better at synchronizing the two, which took a few iterations of code to get working (most of the time) for my own system.

Does the direct upload to pvoutput work reliably for you? It never worked reliably for me and I had switch to upload via Wattvision but it has also become unreliable recently.

[cebury]

Does the direct upload to pvoutput work reliably for you? It never worked reliably for me and I had switch to upload via Wattvision but it has also become unreliable recently.

I'm about to switch to Wattvision instead of direct for the same reason. I started pvoutput a mere 5 months ago and it has gone down 4 times, presumably with some problem between the rainforest --> pvoutput channel. If it goes down for an hour, no big deal. But it stays down for days and there is very little retention/buffer or cached data during down time. Thus when it comes up, the data during down is lost.

Mine is down right now and for last two days.

[sensij]

I stayed with Wattvision when I realized that my meter doesn't update energy counters at a predictable interval. In PVO's direct pull from the eagle, it is reading the energy registers, which occasionally led to reports of zero consumption when the meters update interval was longer than 5 min. Wattvision is getting a steady stream of power data (every 8 sec or so), and calculates energy and average power from that. It is accurate, but different timestamping strategies between the systems make it hard to synchronize with other sources.

[solardreamer]

I'm about to switch to Wattvision instead of direct for the same reason. I started pvoutput a mere 5 months ago and it has gone down 4 times, presumably with some problem between the rainforest --> pvoutput channel. If it goes down for an hour, no big deal. But it stays down for days and there is very little retention/buffer or cached data during down time. Thus when it comes up, the data during down is lost.

Mine is down right now and for last two days.

In general, I think the rainforest box is generally good but reliability of the upload capability, their cloud service and iphone app are terrible compared to enphase.

[jetsurgn]

Engineer did you ever sell your Envoy-S?

[Engineer]

No have it still in the box

[jetsurgn]

Engineer, I'm interested, How can I contact you off site?

[Engineer]

I turned on PM's, go ahead and send me one

[SunEagle]

I wish I could PM you but I can't figure it out, maybe the feature doesn't work? Email me at my screen name at yahoo
Thanks!

The PM function has been turned off due to spammers. You might post your email not using the actual address and then deleting it. It is a PIA but until the PM is turned back on there is really no easy way for members to contact other members.

[ltbighorn]

It's been installed and I've used it for a week or two. I love it. There are a variety of ways to measure your usage and consumption but this one beautifully combines them together.... Well worth it IMO. A buddy also installed one and is surprised at the amount of data it collects.

Engineer, did you or your buddy install the Envoy-S Metered indoors? What kind of enclosure did you install it in? Did you use the Enphase AC combiner box?

I was asking my installer about the price difference, but I get the feeling they've never installed the metered ones so in trying to anticipate issues that may come up (additional parts needed, costs, setup time, clearance, etc.), I've been reading through the install manual. I noticed that the Metered version has to be installed hardwired and they list a requirement of a vented non-metallic NEMA 3R enclosure with conduit attachment. Also looks like only the production CT is included, so two consumption CTs (one per line) are needed as well. The consumption CTs are pretty bulky, but it looks like there should be room for the two of them in my main panel.

Since my installer doesn't normally do metered ones, I'm thinking I should flag the need for a non-metallic box, the extra CTs, etc. On the other hand a vented non-metallic NEMA 3R enclosure seems a bit overkill for an indoor install. I'd think any vented metallic box would be fine? Not sure if the inspector would care though. Any installation experiences with your install or your friend's that you can share?

The AC combiner box looks nice, but tacks on some extra cost both for the 3R box as well as a bunch of combiner breakers which I don't need (my 12x M250s should all fit on one branch). Also concerned about availability of more niche parts like that.

[jetsurgn]

Engineer, PM's don't work! Please get back to me I'm interested in your envoy s

[Engineer]

Hi, oddly enough my brother finally decided to get a system yesterday and went Enphase, so he got first dibs. Better this way anyhow since Enphase won't honor the warranty if it's been installed once already, even if for just a week.

[jetsurgn]

I'm thrilled for your brother, how large of a system?

[Engineer]

16 panels. He's disappointed I think, he would like larger and for them not to face the front, but he has a South facing house and that's all he can do. It's all he needs though.

[Engineer]

Engineer, did you or your buddy install the Envoy-S Metered indoors? What kind of enclosure did you install it in? Did you use the Enphase AC combiner box?

Mine was the first one they had done so it was a learning experience (they didn't charge for labor to compensate). We didn't enclose it in a box but have a terminated conduit as an idea I had on how to do it, I think officially it's supposed to be in a box, anyhow that's what they did for my buddy, and I think they used the Enphase combiner AFAIK.

I was asking my installer about the price difference, but I get the feeling they've never installed the metered ones so in trying to anticipate issues that may come up (additional parts needed, costs, setup time, clearance, etc.), I've been reading through the install manual. I noticed that the Metered version has to be installed hardwired and they list a requirement of a vented non-metallic NEMA 3R enclosure with conduit attachment. Also looks like only the production CT is included, so two consumption CTs (one per line) are needed as well. The consumption CTs are pretty bulky, but it looks like there should be room for the two of them in my main panel.

All correct

Since my installer doesn't normally do metered ones, I'm thinking I should flag the need for a non-metallic box, the extra CTs, etc. On the other hand a vented non-metallic NEMA 3R enclosure seems a bit overkill for an indoor install. I'd think any vented metallic box would be fine? Not sure if the inspector would care though. Any installation experiences with your install or your friend's that you can share?

What stumped us was the CT's. Mine was harder because the Envoy is in the Solar sub panel in my garage far away from the mains panel. I found a post where an Enphase guy suggested using 4 wire shielded 14 gauge security wire, this stuff available at Home Depot where I got it. If the two are next to each other then the CT wires are long enough.

MAKE SURE you have all the phases correct!! Easiest way is to make sure all the lines are correct, black from main panel (usually leg 1) goes to black power on the Envoy, and is the black that the production CT is measuring. If you have multiple strings as I do make SURE all the strings blacks are really black, and same for red. Trace it through and make sure everything is lined up.

Otherwise be very careful about the consumption CT's terminal block, there are three terminal blocks and we blew a few hours before realizing that we were on the wrong one (the diagram can fool you). If everything is lined up correctly then it works beautifully.

Consider asking for discounted labor since your installer hasn't done it before.

On the box I believe code is that it should be in one, I'd just get the Enphase box personally but it's up to you. If you're outside it's mandatory as the Envoy won't take much weather.