SolarEdge inverter, optimizer, panel level monitoring - Risk vs Value - No Shadow

[monroe]

For a no shadow installation does Solar Edge provide any advantage?
Pros:
Panel level monitoring
One faulty panel would not impact string performance

Cons:
Solar Edge comes as a premium and each panel needs a optimizer which adds more cost
More components more failure points

The advantages in my view does not add any value, If I can divide panels to maximum available strings for a given inverter, I can restrict the loss to one string if a panel goes down.

Am I missing anything?

Any inverter which can provide power supply when grid goes down, and I can tap sun energy?

[sensij]

In a shade free installation, if you don't care about panel level monitoring, SolarEdge is a tough sell. Not many real-world installations are truly shade free, somewhat muddying the waters. In areas requiring 2014 NEC rapid shutdown, the price differences between system types tend to collapse.

SMA's line of inverters has a Secure Power Supply (SPS) which can provide a limited amount of power (1500 W, 2000 W on their next generation soon to be released) if the panels are capable of producing it with the available sunlight.

[monroe]

In a shade free installation, if you don't care about panel level monitoring, SolarEdge is a tough sell. Not many real-world installations are truly shade free, somewhat muddying the waters. In areas requiring 2014 NEC rapid shutdown, the price differences between system types tend to collapse.

SMA's line of inverters has a Secure Power Supply (SPS) which can provide a limited amount of power (1500 W, 2000 W on their next generation soon to be released) if the panels are capable of producing it with the available sunlight.

"Not many real-world installations are truly shade free", do you mean shading from clouds, dirt, bird droppings? If you could elaborate .. premium panels have any advantage in those situations?

With NEC rapid shut down requirement, price is no longer as an disadvantage,

What about optimizer failures, each additional component gives additional failure point. For an installer that would be a risk, if they have to replace them during the warranty.

[ButchDeal]

SolarEdge should be comparable in price to other string inverters, possibly cheaper with rapid shutdown

Few roofs are share free but if they are then you have module level variances.
Most modules are rated for a particular wattage but have a tolerance level from the factory of 0 + 5W. In other words if you buy say 20 265W modules, all of them will be at least 265 watts but the average will be 267.5w. If you wire them all up in strings then they will perform like 265W modules (whatever the lowest wattage is) but on SolarEdge the total will average out to 267.5w for a 50w advantage.

SolarEdge SE7600 is upgradeable to provide power without the grid using the powerwall.

[sensij]

"Not many real-world installations are truly shade free", do you mean shading from clouds, dirt, bird droppings? If you could elaborate .. premium panels have any advantage in those situations?

I mean more like... vent pipes, electricity poles, landscape or structural features to the west or east that can interfere with morning or afternoon production. I'm just saying, if you scan through system output on an aggregating site like PVOutput.org, you'll find more systems *with* some evidence of structural shading than without.

There are other reasons that total system output could be higher with SolarEdge (as Butchdeal explained), but whether that output is worth the failure/replacement risk is very subjective. The time to failure isn't known, but I would expect that it will fail eventually. If the mean time to failure is 30 years, who cares? If it is 5 years, concern about the aggravation and cost of replacement is more warranted.

[DaveDE2]

SolarEdge should be comparable in price to other string inverters, possibly cheaper with rapid shutdown

Few roofs are share free but if they are then you have module level variances.
Most modules are rated for a particular wattage but have a tolerance level from the factory of 0 + 5W. In other words if you buy say 20 265W modules, all of them will be at least 265 watts but the average will be 267.5w. If you wire them all up in strings then they will perform like 265W modules (whatever the lowest wattage is) but on SolarEdge the total will average out to 267.5w for a 50w advantage.

.

A minor nit: with a string inverter the MPPT will find an inverter input impedance that maximizes power input from the string. If some of the modules put out 265W max and some put out 270W max then the MPPT will find a happy medium operating impedance that maximizes power. Since all of the modules are in series they will have the same current but different voltages. None of the individual modules will quite be operating at their MPP, rather somewhere inbetween the MPP for a 265W and 270W module. This will result in something more than 265W average but something less than 267.5W. So you're correct, SolarEdge will eek out a little more power, but I submit not a 50W advantage, probably more like ~25W, but still not insignificant (~0.5%).

[Mike90250]

In my opinion, unless the panels are easy to access for repairs, I would not put many electronic boxes up on the roof. Just asking for failures.

[monroe]

In my opinion, unless the panels are easy to access for repairs, I would not put many electronic boxes up on the roof. Just asking for failures.

Agreed, common sense tells me not to go for optimizer, but few installers are insisting on Solar Edge, they state that Solar Edge technology is superior to SMA. Unless they are trying to avoid additional labor of installing emergency DC shutdown with SMA (NEC 2014 requirement), I don't see any reason for promoting Solar Edge other than stated belief that Solar Edge technology is superior.

[cowboyrx]

I cannot find a clear answer for this so far "Can Solaredge 7600 be used without their optimizers" ? Shading is not an issue.

[sensij]

I cannot find a clear answer for this so far "Can Solaredge 7600 be used without their optimizers" ? Shading is not an issue.

No. A SolarEdge inverter will not function without optimizers.

[cebury]

Agreed, common sense tells me not to go for optimizer, but few installers are insisting on Solar Edge, they state that Solar Edge technology is superior to SMA. Unless they are trying to avoid additional labor of installing emergency DC shutdown with SMA (NEC 2014 requirement), I don't see any reason for promoting Solar Edge other than stated belief that Solar Edge technology is superior.

As differing opinions exist here, so they will for installers. Every installer I talked to had a slightly different focus (slant) on what was valuable to them. My chosen installer didn't want to bother "chasing down which panel might be bad" if something went wrong. He is gambling on zero problems with modules themselves for the value of easier panel troubleshooting in case of panel malfunction. Other installers, especially those that suffered through first generation Enphase or even SE would likely gamble the opposite.

[ButchDeal]

Agreed, common sense tells me not to go for optimizer, but few installers are insisting on Solar Edge, they state that Solar Edge technology is superior to SMA. Unless they are trying to avoid additional labor of installing emergency DC shutdown with SMA (NEC 2014 requirement), I don't see any reason for promoting Solar Edge other than stated belief that Solar Edge technology is superior.

It isn't really a belief if it is measurable.
SolarEdge is cheaper for rapid shutdown.
SolarEdge has higher efficiency.
SolarEdge has local consumption capabilities with addition of just a meter.
SolarEdge has built in monitoring
SolarEdge inverter has a longer warranty and cheaper extended warranties

Those are not beliefs
SMA is adding more MPPTs, now up to 3 but SolarEdge has more. again not a belief

[inetdog]

On the other hand, SMA has been in business many more years than SolarEdge, and that counts for something.

Warranties are useless if the company goes out of business or often even f it is sold.

[DaveDE2]

SolarEdge has local consumption capabilities with addition of just a meter.

Can you elaborate on how that would work? I'm actually probably going with SolarEdge over SMA due to extra cost and hassle of rapid shutdown and since SMA is taking forever to release their solution.

[ButchDeal]

Can you elaborate on how that would work? I'm actually probably going with SolarEdge over SMA due to extra cost and hassle of rapid shutdown and since SMA is taking forever to release their solution.

http://www.solaredge.com/files/pdfs/...tion_flyer.pdf

http://www.solaredge.com/files/pdfs/...ation_note.pdf