Inverter Tripping

[kellystalker]

Hello,

I have a MS4024-PAE MAGNUM 4000 W INV/CHGR. I operate 2 - 10GS05421 Goulds pumps. They both don't run at the same time very often (like almost never) but our set up is such that we pump water into a cistern and then from the cistern into a pressure tank. My question is, when my ECO GEN 6.0 KW generator is running and then the pressure tank calls for water, it trips the inverter. So then the house reverts back to battery power and the generator continues to run without doing a damn thing.

It's obviously only an issue when someone is home but with winter coming and the necessity of using the generator more, I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to why it's happening and if there is a solution to the problem.

Your comments and feedback are greatly appreciated.

Kelly

[Willy T]

it trips the inverter.

Do you mean it trips the breaker on the Generator ?? If that the case you need to lower the ACin on the Inverters input to a little less then the breaker size on the generator. If you do have a issue where both pumps could run at the same time you can set them up as a master and slave. When the master is running it will open a relay / contactor so the slave cannot run until it cuts off. You may have to put a delay timer cube in the circuit so there is a delay on one stopping and the other starting.

[kellystalker]

Do you mean it trips the breaker on the Generator ?? If that the case you need to lower the ACin on the Inverters input to a little less then the breaker size on the generator. If you do have a issue where both pumps could run at the same time you can set them up as a master and slave. When the master is running it will open a relay / contactor so the slave cannot run until it cuts off. You may have to put a delay timer cube in the circuit so there is a delay on one stopping and the other starting.

it trips the 30 amp fuse on the side of the inverter.

[Willy T]

it trips the 30 amp fuse on the side of the inverter.

You mean the circuit breaker that pops out. Reduce your loads or disable the standby on the inverter. Anytime you go over 30 amps on the input , they will pop. My guess would be that the pump is putting a huge imbalance on one leg as it tries to start and pops the breaker. It also needs a breaker on the output.

Input circuit breakers - these circuit breakers protect the unit’s internal wiring and
pass-thru relay on each input (L1 and L2) while in the standby mode. These input circuit
breakers are not branch-circuit rated. These circuit breakers pop out when they open,
press in to reset power capacity.

CAUTION: Circuit breakers that branch-circuit rated must be installed in the inverter’s
input and output wiring.

CAUTION: The inverter’s internal AC transfer relay is rated for 30 amps per leg, the
pass-thru current must be no greater than 30 amps per leg or damage to the relays

[kellystalker]

You mean the circuit breaker that pops out. Reduce your loads or disable the standby on the inverter. Anytime you go over 30 amps on the input , they will pop. My guess would be that the pump is putting a huge imbalance on one leg as it tries to start and pops the breaker. It also needs a breaker on the output.

Input circuit breakers - these circuit breakers protect the unit’s internal wiring and
pass-thru relay on each input (L1 and L2) while in the standby mode. These input circuit
breakers are not branch-circuit rated. These circuit breakers pop out when they open,
press in to reset power capacity.

CAUTION: Circuit breakers that branch-circuit rated must be installed in the inverter’s
input and output wiring.

CAUTION: The inverter’s internal AC transfer relay is rated for 30 amps per leg, the
pass-thru current must be no greater than 30 amps per leg or damage to the relays

Yes I am referring to the circuit breaker. Can you dumb it down for me? Can I put in a different circuit breaker. I'm not sure I can reduce the load. The pump takes what it takes. The rest of the house draws very little. We live a energy conservative life save the pump.

[Willy T]

Yes I am referring to the circuit breaker. Can you dumb it down for me? Can I put in a different circuit breaker. I'm not sure I can reduce the load. The pump takes what it takes. The rest of the house draws very little. We live a energy conservative life save the pump.

The Inverter in the standby mode ( not Inverting ) and is in the pass through mode. Your pump or the other loads are more than 30 amps. You should have a branch rated breaker on both ends ( input & Output ) that limit the current going through the Inverter to 30 amps. The pump could be pulling as many as 90 amps when it starts.

[inetdog]

A major part of your problem is the configuration of the equipment using the internal transfer switch of the inverter.
That is the simplest and least expensive way to handle the handoff between inverter and grid or generator, but it does not support surge loads very well, and does not support a load panel that will draw more than 30A continuously under any circumstances.
You might have to reconfigure your system with the addition of an external transfer switch for the well pump circuit which follows the state of the inverter's built-in transfer switch.

[Zardiw]

Hey....What's the difference between the MS4024 and the MS4024PAE? ......

Thx, z

[Mike90250]

Hey....What's the difference between the MS4024 and the MS4024PAE? ......Thx, z

The PAE can do 120 & 240VAC output.
It looks like you can get an upgraded relay kit
Are your pumps 120V or 240V ?

Expanded transfer relay:
60 Amp transfer service is
available on all models except
MS2000, which is 30 Amp only.

See page 40 of the manual on how the charger works,
when the generator is running all loads appear to transfer to the generator and the charger begins charging the battery,


3.3 Battery Charging
Magnum Energy’s MS Series is equipped with an active PFC (Power Factor Corrected) and PI
(Proportional-Integral) multistage battery charger. The PFC feature is used to control the amount
of power used to charge the batteries in order to obtain a power factor as close as possible to 1
(or unity). This causes the battery charger to look like a resistor to the line (forces the charge
current waveshape to mirror the voltage waveshape). The PI feature allows the charger voltage
and current to change independently. These two features maximize the real power available from
either utility or generator AC power sources, which translates into less power wasted and greater
charging capabilities than most chargers available today.
When an AC source is connected to the AC input, the inverter begins monitoring for acceptable AC
voltage. Once the inverter has accepted this AC voltage, the AC transfer relay closes and the Charge
Mode begins. After Charge Mode begins, the DC voltage is monitored to determine the charging
stage. If the DC voltage is low (≤ 12.8 VDC/12 volt models or ≤ 25.6 VDC/24-volt models), the
charger begins Bulk Charging. If the DC voltage is high (> 12.8 VDC/12 volt models or >25.6 VDC/
24-volt), the charger will skip the Bulk and Absorb charging stages and go directly to Float Charging.

[Zardiw]

The PAE can do 120 & 240VAC output.
It looks like you can get an upgraded relay kit
Are your pumps 120V or 240V ?

Expanded transfer relay:
60 Amp transfer service is
available on all models except
MS2000, which is 30 Amp only.

See page 40 of the manual on how the charger works,
when the generator is running all loads appear to transfer to the generator and the charger begins charging the battery,


3.3 Battery Charging
Magnum Energy’s MS Series is equipped with an active PFC (Power Factor Corrected) and PI
(Proportional-Integral) multistage battery charger. The PFC feature is used to control the amount
of power used to charge the batteries in order to obtain a power factor as close as possible to 1
(or unity). This causes the battery charger to look like a resistor to the line (forces the charge
current waveshape to mirror the voltage waveshape). The PI feature allows the charger voltage
and current to change independently. These two features maximize the real power available from
either utility or generator AC power sources, which translates into less power wasted and greater
charging capabilities than most chargers available today.
When an AC source is connected to the AC input, the inverter begins monitoring for acceptable AC
voltage. Once the inverter has accepted this AC voltage, the AC transfer relay closes and the Charge
Mode begins. After Charge Mode begins, the DC voltage is monitored to determine the charging
stage. If the DC voltage is low (≤ 12.8 VDC/12 volt models or ≤ 25.6 VDC/24-volt models), the
charger begins Bulk Charging. If the DC voltage is high (> 12.8 VDC/12 volt models or >25.6 VDC/
24-volt), the charger will skip the Bulk and Absorb charging stages and go directly to Float Charging.

Pumps will be 240v. So I take it the 4024 only has one leg coming out of it, while the PAE has 2 legs?

z

[Mike90250]

you need to check the manuals / specs for yourself before you can trust my quick lookup. But that is my impression

[Sunking]

Pumps will be 240v. So I take it the 4024 only has one leg coming out of it, while the PAE has 2 legs?

Means it will not work if your Inverter is only 120 volts. Your motor require 208 or 240 volts which means your Inverter has to be 240/120 with L1 and L2 outputs.

[ButchDeal]

Means it will not work if your Inverter is only 120 volts. Your motor require 208 or 240 volts which means your Inverter has to be 240/120 with L1 and L2 outputs.

Or he could simply get an auto transformer. I use one to power my 240V well from my 120V FlexPower1 (PSX-240) http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-...utotransformer

[Sunking]

Or he could simply get an auto transformer. I use one to power my 240V well from my 120V FlexPower1 (PSX-240) http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-...utotransformer

I would not do that, but something similar. A Step Up Transformer, but that still comes with problems. The real issue is buying something not designed to do the job it was intended for. I have not read all the details but if he is tripping a fuse at 120, it wil trip twice as fast is the voltage is stepped up. 30 amps @ 240 volts = 60 amps @ 120 volts