Has anyone bought any of the solar stuff on Northern Tool

[russ]

1) This is not "plug & play" by any definition except yours. Computers started the concept where you just stuck the part in and started up - no set up. "Detractors cannot be the mean but the outliers" is a meaningless statement - you play with the lexicon in use in the industry.

2) Sourcing - Buying the right IP rated components is no big deal

3) You have issued patents? Nope, that I am sure of. If you mean you have been issued patents then list out the patent numbers and what they are for.

[inetdog]

The biggest stumbling block I see is to know if the local inspectors will allow the cord connection between the Pod output and the hardwired connection at the panel. As you stated the code does not allow a flexible cord for a permanent wiring practice. Cords are usually used for temporary power only and even then have a length limitation of 6 feet for a "fixed" load like a lighting fixture. It is possible that if the plug connection is secured in a UL listed box to keep unauthorized people from touching it and getting shocked (similar to a terminal or junction box) it would be allowed.

If the demarcation between the building wiring and the UL listed GTI system is indeed the connection of the receptacle itself to the building wiring, then, just as is the case for the Enphase trunk cable, the plug and associated cord is part of a UL listed assembly and not the building wiring. Any safety issues would be addressed by UL and not by the NEC in that case.
The flexible cord (if that is what is used on the male side) is not a substitute for building wiring because it is part of an assembly that is in turn connected to building wiring upstream.

[SunEagle]

If the demarcation between the building wiring and the UL listed GTI system is indeed the connection of the receptacle itself to the building wiring, then, just as is the case for the Enphase trunk cable, the plug and associated cord is part of a UL listed assembly and not the building wiring. Any safety issues would be addressed by UL and not by the NEC in that case.
The flexible cord (if that is what is used on the male side) is not a substitute for building wiring because it is part of an assembly that is in turn connected to building wiring upstream.

I did not watch the installation video (for some reason it did not down load properly) so what I didn't realize when I made my post was that the male plug (wired to the Pod) would de-energize once it was removed from the female plug (wired to the house panel) due to the anti islanding safety in the Pod inverters. So the prongs on the male plug would be dead even in the sunlight and the power on the female plug would not be exposed to the touch.

What I wasn't sure was if the female plug (hard wired to the house panel) could be on the end of a "cord" or needed to be housed in a box like all other female receptacles. If it could be on the end of a "cord" then the "cord" must be protected from damage and exposing live wires. At least with a portable power cord you can just unplug it but you can do that with a hardwired cord.

[inetdog]

IMHO the receptacle would be permanently mounted to the house in a suitable box. Otherwise the hard wiring demarcation point would not be where it needs to be.

[Mouli SolarPod]

1) This is not "plug & play" by any definition except yours. Computers started the concept where you just stuck the part in and started up - no set up. "Detractors cannot be the mean but the outliers" is a meaningless statement - you play with the lexicon in use in the industry.

2) Sourcing - Buying the right IP rated components is no big deal

3) You have issued patents? Nope, that I am sure of. If you mean you have been issued patents then list out the patent numbers and what they are for.

Thanks Russ for your diligent comments.

It is plug & play because we provide the plugs. If you disagree with the definition. Am sure we will disagree on more things once we talk - we are both intelligent human beings, at least you are.

Yes, buying the right components and placing it is called integration.

The patent number is 8,716,889 that is the SolarPodTM. The SolarPod Crown patent is 8,826,608 - this is the no roof penetration gable roof mounting solar system.

It will be more civil if we do not place personalized comments such as what you posted yesterday. Discussion with Inetdog and SunEagle have clarified many of the technical barriers.

Just to refresh your comment from last post "Like Inetdog pointed out - you seem to have no idea about how to set up a system in a legal and safe manner." has been proven wrong. Here is a quote from SunEagle "I agree your company has done a lot of good engineering to make sure all of the components meet the electric code including the plug rating for wet environments. And I applaud that hard work. ".

I appreciate your questions and again only through these questions do we become a better person. I respect it very much. But we can disagree on the definition if that is what you wish to hear. The fact remains our system is code compliant and have been accepted by many jurisdictions and AHJs.

Thanks Russ.

Mouli

[SunEagle]

IMHO the receptacle would be permanently mounted to the house in a suitable box. Otherwise the hard wiring demarcation point would not be where it needs to be.

Unless if the Pod was farther away from the house that the cord with the male plug could not reach the receptacle. Then the wiring from the house would need to be run (U/G or aerial) to a permanent box with the receptacle in it closer to the Pod. Similar to running power to receptacle in your yard to power a flood light.

But is this still an acceptable wiring practice for Solar PV systems?

[Mouli SolarPod]

Unless if the Pod was farther away from the house that the cord with the male plug could not reach the receptacle. Then the wiring from the house would need to be run (U/G or aerial) to a permanent box with the receptacle in it closer to the Pod. Similar to running power to receptacle in your yard to power a flood light.

But is this still an acceptable wiring practice for Solar PV systems?

On-site wiring is very site specific. Hence a skilled electrician is needed. Am also sure if you give the task to 10 electricians, the location of boxes will be in 10 different places - and all of them will be code compliant. That is why we give the current and voltages leaving the pod and up to the plugs. the electrician figures out the distance, routing, wiring methods and boxes which they do everyday very well.

Thanks
Mouli

[Sunking]

Why would anyone ever buy anything from NTB? Are you a Chi-Com supporting your comrads back home?

[russ]

It is plug & play because we provide the plugs. If you disagree with the definition. Am sure we will disagree on more things once we talk - we are both intelligent human beings, at least you are. It is Plug & Play by the definition you want to insist on only.

Yes, buying the right components and placing it is called integration. And it is no big deal.

The patent number is 8,716,889 that is the SolarPodTM. The SolarPod Crown patent is 8,826,608 - this is the no roof penetration gable roof mounting solar system. Thank you - The 8,826,608 patent is going to be tough to make hold up - issued to Vaidyanathan; Chandramouli

It will be more civil if we do not place personalized comments such as what you posted yesterday. Discussion with Inetdog and SunEagle have clarified many of the technical barriers. You do what you want and do not tell me what to do - you are trying to hustle free advertising for something by playing games.

Just to refresh your comment from last post "Like Inetdog pointed out - you seem to have no idea about how to set up a system in a legal and safe manner." has been proven wrong. Here is a quote from SunEagle "I agree your company has done a lot of good engineering to make sure all of the components meet the electric code including the plug rating for wet environments. And I applaud that hard work. SunEagle was being nice - I see no reason to so - I have my name on real patents in both the US and India - forget playing games about it.

I appreciate your questions and again only through these questions do we become a better person. I respect it very much. But we can disagree on the definition if that is what you wish to hear. The fact remains our system is code compliant and have been accepted by many jurisdictions and AHJs. Your system is most likely code compliant (NEC) nowhere as presented.

Thanks Russ I know the backside kissing games you are playing - you mean no such thing. I sat through years of management meetings in India - where you sit with your back to the wall.

Mouli

Cut the bull

[russ]

On-site wiring is very site specific. Hence a skilled electrician is needed. Am also sure if you give the task to 10 electricians, the location of boxes will be in 10 different places - and all of them will be code compliant. That is why we give the current and voltages leaving the pod and up to the plugs. the electrician figures out the distance, routing, wiring methods and boxes which they do everyday very well.

Thanks
Mouli

Mouli - that is pure baloney

[SunEagle]

Mouli - that is pure baloney

Actually if you go through the photos of the existing projects you will see a number of different wiring practices for the "field" connection but most look like a permanently installed box which would work.

Now I finally saw the video and in the end is showed the "installer" plugging the male plug from the Pod into a female receptacle on the end of a cord. They then show him plugging another male plug on a cord into a wall mounted receptacle on the house near the main panel. They also showed a two pole 20 amp breaker in the panel which was "dedicated" for the Pod connection.

So while it didn't mention an "extension cord" that is what the "installer" used to connect the Pod to the house grid. Not something I would say is code compliant. If that "extension" cord had been a fix cable/conduit run underground terminating in a box mounted receptacle near the Pod I would say it should pass inspection.

Another weak point I noticed is that the framework that holds the solar panels just sits on patio blocks with one leg "anchored" by a cable connected to a "ground rod" driven into the ground. I would think that with some states (like Florida) they would require additional anchors to meet wind code. Also the new design showing the panel framework sort of drapping over the roof peak would never pass code unless it was anchored or tethered somehow. So while you don't have to penetrate the roof for the rack connection you will still need to put holes somewhere for the rack anchor's.

IMO the system is pretty easy to set up and can with a little more focus on some parts easily be code compliant. The big question comes down to if the POCO will recognize the system as a legal "grid tie" and allow the connection to the grid. According to the Pod website this type of installation has been passed by the inspector.

Now the next question is the final installation cost. The materials without shipping comes to a little over $3/watt. Now add shipping and the Electrician's work and it could bring the $/watt up a lot.