Replace inverter? Need advice

[Mike90250]

.....Having said that, I believe that I put enough qualifications in my post to make it clear that I'm not absolutely sure of anything. In my post, I said "I read somewhere" and a lot of "maybes" and "This is only my guess". Just throwing out some possibilities based on what I read. Whether the info is right or wrong, I don't really know for sure. Just passing along info.......

Actually, it bad rumor, if you do not know. You don't "qualify" unknowns, you simply say unknown.
"having never tried this, maybe you can torque a 4-40, grade 8 bolt to 70 foot pounds "
Don't bury uncertainties in a volume of blather.

[SolarEU]

The panels are 48 cell kyocera panels. I can't change to micro-inverters because my panels are 48 cell.

I guess some micro-inverters work with the Kyocera panels. I saw this "If the MPPT voltage of the solar panel is above 20V, such panels can be used with [delete] micro-inverters. - http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/78038251705/

[egizzi]

Latest Update

Oy. What a headache.

My inverter seemed to come back to partial life and I watched it for a while but it is definitely malfunctioning. It would start generating power late in the day but not during peak sun exposure times.

I paid for a reliable small solar company to come and look at it and tell me what inverter options I have. They confirmed the inverter is malfunctioning. It turns out that the wiring is 3 arrays of 8 panels, which fit the Sharp inverter just fine. But most inverters are not made to accommodate that wiring arrangement now so I have 3 choices:

1) send the sharp inverter back to sharp for repair. I have to call sharp to see if they even still repair these. The solar company will charge me $350 to take it of and put it back on. I have no idea how much the repair will cost

2) find an older inverter that can accommodate the wiring arrangement. Apparently there is a 3.8kw Aurora inverter that would work but I am confused by which model...maybe someone can help. I'm guessing the inverter would cost $1500 (if new) and installation $400, so 2k after taxes

3) rewire my system to a more modern wiring arrangement (2 arrays of 12) and get an sma inverter. 2k for the rewiring and 1.5k for the inverter plus $400 to put the inverter in and we're looking at 4k

I appreciate the post about microinverters and my panels but for 24 panels, it will be too expensive.

Thoughts?

[bcroe]

Oy. What a headache.

My inverter seemed to come back to partial life and I watched it for a while but it is definitely malfunctioning. It would start generating power late in the day but not during peak sun exposure times.

I paid for a reliable small solar company to come and look at it and tell me what inverter options I have. They confirmed the inverter is malfunctioning. It turns out that the wiring is 3 arrays of 8 panels, which fit the Sharp inverter just fine. But most inverters are not made to accommodate that wiring arrangement now so I have 3 choices:

1) send the sharp inverter back to sharp for repair. I have to call sharp to see if they even still repair these. The solar company will charge me $350 to take it of and put it back on. I have no idea how much the repair will cost

2) find an older inverter that can accommodate the wiring arrangement. Apparently there is a 3.8kw Aurora inverter that would work but I am confused by which model...maybe someone can help. I'm guessing the inverter would cost $1500 (if new) and installation $400, so 2k after taxes

3) rewire my system to a more modern wiring arrangement (2 arrays of 12) and get an sma inverter. 2k for the rewiring and 1.5k for the inverter plus $400 to put the inverter in and we're looking at 4k

I appreciate the post about microinverters and my panels but for 24 panels, it will be too expensive.
Thoughts?

Perhaps you can find an old inverter, which being old may not have a lot of life left. The cost
of repairing your rather dated one could be quite expensive, and probably comes with a quite
short warrantee. The issue of rewiring the panels I would consider a trivial no brainer. My
choice would be go for the latest technology inverter, which no doubt has numerous advantages
over the old, and is immediately available. Running a higher voltage might buy some efficiency.
Bruce Roe

[greensolarelectric]

sharp jh3500 sun vista inverter repair

Hi I have parts for these sharp sunvista inverters and I can probably repair it. Contact me if your interested. If you have already replaced this inverter and still have the old one I would by it from you for parts.

Thanks,
green solar electric

I have a 9 year old 3.3kw system on my roof installed by Borrego. The panels are 48 cell kyocera panels.

The inverter is a Sharp Sunvista JH-3500. It's a 3.5kw inverter.

The first inverter died right before the 5 year warranty expired. Sharp replaced it through the company Borrego had sold their residential service (I believe it was GroSolar). Now the second one has died a little over 4 years later.

The problem is that Sharp has no record of this second inverter and the solar company that replaced it can't find their paperwork either. Mea culpa that I did not get any paperwork when it was replaced.

I will call Sharp to press them directly about repairing/replacing this inverter for free. If they agree to do that, then that's the obvious choice.

If they refuse, then I have two options:

1) pay for Sharp to repair it
2) switch inverters, and go with a sunny boy inverter with a 10 year warranty

If I switch to a sunny boy inverter, I'm looking at their new ones (the 3800 and the 4000). I'm not sure why the 4000 is less expensive than the 3800. Am I correct that I simply need to get an inverter that exceeds the kw that my panels generate? I would go this route through one of the local solar shops that repair/install solar.

I am totally disappointed that my inverter has died again. When I went through the math to decide about solar, I did not calculate equipment failure. I can't change to micro-inverters because my panels are 48 cell. So I have to have a single grid-tie inverter, and I'm leaning towards the sunny boy just for peace of mind.

-Elio

[egizzi]

Thanks for the suggestion

Green Solar Electric:

Thanks for the offer.

If I price it out for the repair....worst case..... it's going to cost me close to $1250 for the repair:

$500 for your repair
$400 for inverter removal and reinstallation
$150 to ship it though I'm unclear if you pay for this both ways, one way, or neither way
taxes

And only a 90 day warranty

This is looking more and more like the need to do the rewiring and getting a brand new transformerless inverter with a 700 year warranty

[egizzi]

Why is it working sometimes and not others?

So I just sent an email to the repair guy to start working on a rewiring estimate.

I go out to my inverter and it is humming along at 2 pm in the afternoon generating 3kw.

So my question is.... why would the inverter work only in the afternoon? It clearly has sun exposure in the late morning and it is totally silent. Is this a panel problem or an inverter problem?

When the repair guy came, he came in the late morning and here's what he wrote:

I was able to get voltage from the 3 strings(215v each). I wasn't able to get any amp reading from the inverter so I think it's dead.

Thoughts?

[egizzi]

decision time

I'm getting the panels rewired and a new inverter. Deciding between the SMA TL 3000 or TL 4000. Is there any downside to having a larger than current panel output inverter? At some point eventually I'll need new panels though I suspect it will be a while. Here's what the installer wrote to me:

As for up sizing your inverter that is not a problem and a good Idea if
you think this is something you are going to do. The SMA TL inverters
have two maximum power point tracking inputs so what we could do is put
all of your existing modules on one of the MPPT circuits (each circuit
can accept 2 strings of modules) and leave the other one open for later.
This way you can use whatever modules you would like on the 2nd MPPT
circuit. All you have to decide is how much more power you wantyour
inverter to be able to accommodate? The total install including the SMA
TL 4000 would run roughly $4,800 and the SMA TL 5000 would run about
roughly $5,300

The cost increase for the TL 4000 is only $250 more than the TL 3000.

[bcroe]

I'm getting the panels rewired and a new inverter.
Here's what the installer wrote to me:

put all of your existing modules on one of the MPPT circuits (each circuit
can accept 2 strings of modules) and leave the other one open for later. This way
you can use whatever modules you would like on the 2nd MPPT circuit.

I would use both MPPT circuits, dividing your panels into groups of similar (or no) shading, for
best performance. In addition, there likely will be a lighter load on both sections, instead of a
heavy load on one MPPT section (hastening its demise) and none on the other. Rearranging
for additional strings later shouldn't be a big deal. Bruce Roe

[egizzi]

One Hopefully Last Question

I would use both MPPT circuits, dividing your panels into groups of similar (or no) shading, for
best performance. In addition, there likely will be a lighter load on both sections, instead of a
heavy load on one MPPT section (hastening its demise) and none on the other. Rearranging
for additional strings later shouldn't be a big deal. Bruce Roe

I talked to one installer recently who discouraged me from getting a larger inverter if my plan is to add panels to my roof and have them feed into the new larger capacity inverter. He thought that because my panels were older, it would be challenging to find panels that were compatible with the existing ones. Rather, he said if I want to install more panels, he recommended doing it with microinverters on a separate array and having that feed into the bus. Is he right?

Here's his quote:

It's perfectly ok to have 2 circuits feeding into the main so long as the mains rated bussing can handle the extra Amps feeding into it. We have done many system increases using micro inverter and a older string inverters.

I was mostly thinking about the larger inverter down the road.... perhaps 10-15 years down the road when I need to get new panels. But I suppose most things will be micro-inverter at that point. Am I thinking too far down the road?

[bcroe]

I talked to one installer recently who discouraged me from getting a larger inverter if my plan is to add panels to my roof and have them feed into the new larger capacity inverter. He thought that because my panels were older, it would be challenging to find panels that were compatible with the existing ones. Rather, he said if I want to install more panels, he recommended doing it with microinverters on a separate array and having that feed into the bus. Is he right?

Here's his quote:

It's perfectly ok to have 2 circuits feeding into the main so long as the mains rated bussing can handle the extra Amps feeding into it. We have done many system increases using micro inverter and a older string inverters.

I was mostly thinking about the larger inverter down the road.... perhaps 10-15 years down the road when I need to get new panels. But I suppose most things will be micro-inverter at that point. Am I thinking too far down the road?

I wouldn't guess what technology and regulations will be in a decade or so. But with proper fusing
you can always add a string having the same V max power to an existing one. Bruce Roe

[inetdog]

But with proper fusing
you can always add a string having the same V max power to an existing one. Bruce Roe

Where, as a practical matter, "same" means within +/- 5%. Maybe even 10% if you do not mind getting boosted by less than the full rated power of the new string.

[bcroe]

Where, as a practical matter, "same" means within +/- 5%. Maybe even 10% if you do not mind getting boosted by less than the full rated power of the new string.

My inclination is to have the same number of cells in each string. Bruce Roe

[egizzi]

All is good - almost

I had the SMA 4000TL-US-22 installed this week. Nice to have my system up and running.

However, it has no Secure Power Supply (SPS) as part of it. I've emailed the installer asking why. Now I think I know why.

If you go to the SMA site, they describe the SPS as a feature, not as an option. However, as I read in my manual (obtained after purchase), it is described as an option and one that is not retrofittable. In other words, if you don't order it up-front, you cannot add it on later.

That is very frustrating. I will call SMA on Monday, but I feel a bit duped. I have scoured their site and the multitude of sites that talk about the SPS and nowhere does it mention that you have to specifically request it. It appears it is not standard.

Lastly, I'm a bid bothered by my installer's incorrect information. First he told me that the extended warranty was over $800. I called SMA prior to purchase and they told me that was old data and the rough cost now is $250 for 5 years and $500 for 10 years of extension. My installer also told me that to set up the communication part for my inverter would require a WebBox and the total would be over $800. Not true. You can use the SpeedWire add-on for $150 and connect to your router through an ethernet cable which then connects to the Sunny Portal.

I prefer clarity and accuracy, especially when spending a chunk of change. Hopefully, things will get worked out.

Most importantly, the system is working well. They wired the 8 panels that are more prone to late afternoon shading onto one MPPT and the other 16 to the other MPPT.

[inetdog]

I had the SMA 4000TL-US-22 installed this week. Nice to have my system up and running.

However, it has no Secure Power Supply (SPS) as part of it. I've emailed the installer asking why. Now I think I know why.

If you go to the SMA site, they describe the SPS as a feature, not as an option. However, as I read in my manual (obtained after purchase), it is described as an option and one that is not retrofittable. In other words, if you don't order it up-front, you cannot add it on later.

That is very frustrating. I will call SMA on Monday, but I feel a bit duped. I have scoured their site and the multitude of sites that talk about the SPS and nowhere does it mention that you have to specifically request it. It appears it is not standard.

Lastly, I'm a bid bothered by my installer's incorrect information. First he told me that the extended warranty was over $800. I called SMA prior to purchase and they told me that was old data and the rough cost now is $250 for 5 years and $500 for 10 years of extension. My installer also told me that to set up the communication part for my inverter would require a WebBox and the total would be over $800. Not true. You can use the SpeedWire add-on for $150 and connect to your router through an ethernet cable which then connects to the Sunny Portal.

I prefer clarity and accuracy, especially when spending a chunk of change. Hopefully, things will get worked out.

Most importantly, the system is working well. They wired the 8 panels that are more prone to late afternoon shading onto one MPPT and the other 16 to the other MPPT.

I think that you are in very murky waters here. In particular, I can find NO documentation on the SMA website as to the status of the SPS for the -22 models. The non-22 models are clearly shown as having the SPS included and not optional. But all of the data sheets cover the non-22 models only and the downloadable owner manuals just show the -22 models in parentheses on the first page and do not even describe the existence of two MPPT inputs. The downloadable installation manual, OTOH, mentions the two inputs, but gives the somewhat confusing advice that the two strings should be configured identically!
That leaves you with whatever the dealer from whom you bought it (i.e. your installer) documented and quoted. The typical online ads (with prices) that I find for the SMA 4000TL-US-22 specifically mention the SPS, and if that is what your installer represented to you, your complaint would be with them rather than with SMA.
My guess is that for some reason SMA marketing decided to make the SPS optional on the -22 models to keep the advertised price point low and comparable to the non-22 models.