Wind Pressure Release Clips/Brackets?

[eric@psmnv]

I'm not sure how to ask this question. Is anybody aware of clips or brackets that are designed to release after a certain load threshold is reached? My idea is to attach my panels to frames with a hinge at the top, a load-release clip at the bottom, and adjustable sliders on the sides. If the wind load reaches a certain level, the lower bracket releases and allows the panel to tilt upward at the bottom by several inches, which decreases the angle, exposes less panel surface perpendicular to the wind direction, and makes room for wind to flow underneath and above the panel. That would allow the panels to survive sudden high gusts. Of course they would have to be manually reset after the storm dies down. Does something like that exist?

[J.P.M.]

Does something like that exist?

No.

For a lot of reasons, it's dangerous.

[foo1bar]

If the wind load reaches a certain level, the lower bracket releases and allows the panel to tilt upward at the bottom by several inches, which decreases the angle, exposes less panel surface perpendicular to the wind direction, and makes room for wind to flow underneath and above the panel. That would allow the panels to survive sudden high gusts. Of course they would have to be manually reset after the storm dies down. Does something like that exist?

Are you envisioning this for roof mount or ground mount system?
For roof mount, I think a hinge at the top and release at the bottom would result in *more* panel surface area being caught in the wind.
I think you'd probably wind up with it releasing, the wind catching more area, and the hinges or other attachment points failing, and now the panel has taken flight, landing on top of the neighbor's car or slamming into the wall of the neighbor's house.

If you're talking ground mount - you've solved one direction of the wind blowing, but not the other.
And you can probably put in a tilt-mount for about the same price as those hinges, and other hardware - and get more production *and* ability to tilt it edge-on in a storm. Although probably most cases I think you'd design it to handle the storm winds you're likely to see, and if you get hit by a tornado you accept that its going to fail - you're not going to put in a deep enough foundation to resist the tornado. And even if you do, the panels will still be beaten into shards.

[eric@psmnv]

Are you envisioning this for roof mount or ground mount system?
For roof mount, I think a hinge at the top and release at the bottom would result in *more* panel surface area being caught in the wind.
I think you'd probably wind up with it releasing, the wind catching more area, and the hinges or other attachment points failing, and now the panel has taken flight, landing on top of the neighbor's car or slamming into the wall of the neighbor's house.

If you're talking ground mount - you've solved one direction of the wind blowing, but not the other.
And you can probably put in a tilt-mount for about the same price as those hinges, and other hardware - and get more production *and* ability to tilt it edge-on in a storm. Although probably most cases I think you'd design it to handle the storm winds you're likely to see, and if you get hit by a tornado you accept that its going to fail - you're not going to put in a deep enough foundation to resist the tornado. And even if you do, the panels will still be beaten into shards.

1. Ground mount. 2. High winds here are always from the same direction. 3. Based on historical weather data, high winds for the past 20 years have been 27-33 MPH, with three or four days where there were brief gusts of 50-60 MPH down in the valley where the weather sensors are. One gust was 74 MPH. 4. Very rural area, Nearest neighbor is a mile away. Nearest car is farther. 5. I'm on a shoestring budget and panels are cheap in comparison to installing expensive tracking/rotating mechanisms and storm-proofed mounts. I'd rather pay $100 for some DIY parts and have some small chance of defeating a gust. If it doesn't work and sometime in the next 20 years my panels blow away, then I think buying new ones will be cheaper than trying to rig up some complex solution.

[J.P.M.]

1. Ground mount. 2. High winds here are always from the same direction. 3. Based on historical weather data, high winds for the past 20 years have been 27-33 MPH, with three or four days where there were brief gusts of 50-60 MPH down in the valley where the weather sensors are. One gust was 74 MPH. 4. Very rural area, Nearest neighbor is a mile away. Nearest car is farther. 5. I'm on a shoestring budget and panels are cheap in comparison to installing expensive tracking/rotating mechanisms and storm-proofed mounts. I'd rather pay $100 for some DIY parts and have some small chance of defeating a gust. If it doesn't work and sometime in the next 20 years my panels blow away, then I think buying new ones will be cheaper than trying to rig up some complex solution.

From what you write, I'm pretty sure you're not qualified either by training or experience to design structures.
If you were you would know that what you're considering is first of all bad design, and more importantly dangerous without some serious design from qualified individuals. What you are considering may be possible but very impractical if done in a safe and sane way. You also wouldn't be able to afford it.

Solar Pete/Mods: As a retired P.E.. who claimed competence in structural design with particular attention to external loadings of structures, I'd respectfully suggest you consider putting a stop to discussing this nonsense before some yahoo takes it seriously.

[eric@psmnv]

From what you write, I'm pretty sure you're not qualified either by training or experience to design structures.
If you were you would know that what you're considering is first of all bad design, and more importantly dangerous without some serious design from qualified individuals. What you are considering may be possible but very impractical if done in a safe and sane way. You also wouldn't be able to afford it.

Solar Pete/Mods: As a retired P.E.. who claimed competence in structural design with particular attention to external loadings of structures, I'd respectfully suggest you consider putting a stop to discussing this nonsense before some yahoo takes it seriously.

I don't think you have quite the right picture. It's worse than you think. The old 4-panel array is mounted to a thrown-together rack of rusty angle iron, which is bolted to the plywood roof of a three-story shed. I have a picture of the original owner building the cabin back before the turn of the century and the panels were up there back then. There used to be a wind turbine too, but the wind blew so hard one time that it bent the steel pole the turbine was attached too. When I bought the place a few years ago, I sawed off the top of the pole and mounted my cell-phone booster antenna to it. Lightning blasted my charge controller once. I replaced it with a $35 Amazon special. Other than that, the main problem I've had with the system is that it just isn't quite powerful enough.

It's a bit like Appalachia around here, my friend. I AM the yahoo. Just a toothpick-chewin' hick in flyover country, throwing together whatever I can. I'm careful with the volts and amps because I don't wanna die. Beyond that, it's a junkyard DIY adventure and I'm not seeking any professional's blessing. I do appreciate the information and advice that people are willing to provide and I take a lot of it to heart, but when people start talking about how only an idiot would do something that didn't involve a bunch of design and engineering money, I'm the first to admit that I'm that idiot! (Plus, we're in the sticks, tucked away in the forest way outside city limits, and the state has better things to do than run around checking to make sure all the hillbillies with no roads and no neighbors have crossed all their I's and dotted all their T's.)

I hope that doesn't rankle your PE degree too much. If you're ever in our neck of the woods, feel free to drop by for a beer and tell me all sorts of horror stories.

.

[J.P.M.]

i don't think you have quite the right picture. It's worse than you think. The old 4-panel array is mounted to a thrown-together rack of rusty angle iron, which is bolted to the plywood roof of a three-story shed. I have a picture of the original owner building the cabin back before the turn of the century and the panels were up there back then. There used to be a wind turbine too, but the wind blew so hard one time that it bent the steel pole the turbine was attached too. When i bought the place a few years ago, i sawed off the top of the pole and mounted my cell-phone booster antenna to it. Lightning blasted my charge controller once. I replaced it with a $35 amazon special. Other than that, the main problem i've had with the system is that it just isn't quite powerful enough.

It's a bit like appalachia around here, my friend. I am the yahoo. Just a toothpick-chewin' hick in flyover country, throwing together whatever i can. I'm careful with the volts and amps because i don't wanna die. Beyond that, it's a junkyard diy adventure and i'm not seeking any professional's blessing. I do appreciate the information and advice that people are willing to provide and i take a lot of it to heart, but when people start talking about how only an idiot would do something that didn't involve a bunch of design and engineering money, i'm the first to admit that i'm that idiot! (plus, we're in the sticks, tucked away in the forest way outside city limits, and the state has better things to do than run around checking to make sure all the hillbillies with no roads and no neighbors have crossed all their i's and dotted all their t's.)

i hope that doesn't rankle your pe degree too much. If you're ever in our neck of the woods, feel free to drop by for a beer and tell me all sorts of horror stories.

.

q.e.d.

[SunEagle]

Something I posted on another thread. I will ask the OP to provide engineering documents for the installation or this thread gets shut down and the poster is given a long vacation from the forum.

[eric@psmnv]

Something I posted on another thread. I will ask the OP to provide engineering documents for the installation or this thread gets shut down and the poster is given a long vacation from the forum.

I've made a grand total of 86 posts in the 7 years since I joined in 2015 and I don't think any of them could be evidenced against me for being a nuisance, but feel free to check. As an administrator, I imagine you have easy access to all of them. I've enjoyed the helpful feedback I've received from the gallery, who have often included both JPM and yourself. If I have now somehow breached the forum rules by asking a question about release brackets and being honest about where I live, then so be it.

Best,

[Mike 134]

Something I posted on another thread. I will ask the OP to provide engineering documents for the installation or this thread gets shut down and the poster is given a long vacation from the forum.

you should get a life!!! 4 posts per day, everyday, the past 10 years, seems to me you're the saloon know-it-all. We all have met your type in our journey through life.

[SunEagle]

you should get a life!!! 4 posts per day, everyday, the past 10 years, seems to me you're the saloon know-it-all. We all have met your type in our journey through life.

Hey Mike. If you want the job of Moderator then ask the Admin Pete to take it away from me and give it to you. But I think I have to keep the forum safe and the OP is an absolute nutcase if they think that installing release clips is not dangerous. I just don't want some of the nubies to think that kind of practice is either smart or safe.

As for only having a few posts then try to remember it only takes one that can lead someone to doing something stupid and dangerous

[eric@psmnv]

Hey Mike. If you want the job of Moderator then ask the Admin Pete to take it away from me and give it to you. But I think I have to keep the forum safe and the OP is an absolute nutcase if they think that installing release clips is not dangerous. I just don't want some of the nubies to think that kind of practice is either smart or safe.

As for only having a few posts then try to remember it only takes one that can lead someone to doing something stupid and dangerous

This just my opinion, of course, but I think people who visit the forum are capable of weighing the answers against the questions. I didn't start the thread to promote anything. I came to ask a question about an idea. You and JPM said that such an approach would be dangerous. Although you did not explain in detail, your comments nevertheless carry the weight of education and experience. I may decide to try it anyway, but other people are free to take what they need from the conversation and reach their own conclusions. That's just my take on it. I realize that others may have a different view.

[SunEagle]

This just my opinion, of course, but I think people who visit the forum are capable of weighing the answers against the questions. I didn't start the thread to promote anything. I came to ask a question about an idea. You and JPM said that such an approach would be dangerous. Although you did not explain in detail, your comments nevertheless carry the weight of education and experience. I may decide to try it anyway, but other people are free to take what they need from the conversation and reach their own conclusions. That's just my take on it. I realize that others may have a different view.

There are over 200 people currently on this forum and some may not be able to make a safe decision concerning solar equipment installations. So I have to provide some input concerning caution and safety when someone makes a post that most DIY's can't perform safely.

As for more detail concerning devices that allow a panel to be released from their mounting structure. Either being a ground or roof mount can cause a panel to fly into someone or something that can cause damage. So IMO it is a no brainer when I say that allowing the wind to release a panel is not safe which is why an installation requires an engineering design to make sure it will stand up to high winds including hurricanes.

[eric@psmnv]

Here's a proposal. Instead of just saying that it's a dangerously bad idea, and then apparently getting irritated enough to call people names for not necessarily accepting that sweeping statement right away, could you take the opportunity to offer some technical reasons and educate those who may be watching? You'd have to dumb it down a bit for us plebeians, but you can probably make it relatable. I'm uneducated, not stupid. Well, not overly stupid. You might just convince me and save me from a disaster.

[SunEagle]

Here's a proposal. Instead of just saying that it's a dangerously bad idea, and then apparently getting irritated enough to call people names for not necessarily accepting that sweeping statement right away, could you take the opportunity to offer some technical reasons and educate those who may be watching? You'd have to dumb it down a bit for us plebeians, but you can probably make it relatable. I'm uneducated, not stupid. Well, not overly stupid. You might just convince me and save me from a disaster.

Good point. I may have jumped the gun. Next time I will try to explain what I feel is an unsafe decision before I make any bad statements. But like you I felt that it was pretty easy to understand that allowing the wind to remove a panel from a structure can be extremely dangerous and not need to provide a detailed reason. I hope you understand my reasoning.