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  • Grounding

    I plan on installing 8 panels on the shed and 16 panels on the custom built carport.will be using IronRidge rails.
    There is 2" conduit going from shed to carport. 3 strings of DC will be going into the house into SolArk. IMG_20190826_1744123-3042x2028.jpgPhotoPictureResizer_190826_213837216_crop_2864x1242.jpg
    At what point do I need to ground? What's best way of grounding? Should I tie into house ground rog or get a separate one?
    Can DC and AC wires share a conduit?

    thanks

  • #2
    If steel frame will be buried a few feet into concrete, does it count as ground? Not sure how wet it'll get, but concrete attracts moisture

    Comment


    • #3
      You really need to find someone in your area that is familiar with the local electrical codes to provide you with the correct answer to your question. Anyone on this forum (including an electrical PE) could be providing you with incorrect information.

      Please be careful and use someone that is an electrical installation professional no matter what the cost.

      Oh. DC and AC wiring should never go into the same conduit. If you are asking that kind of question then I am worried you have no electrical back ground to even try a DIY installation.
      Last edited by SunEagle; 08-26-2019, 10:24 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        NEC2014 is code in WV.
        I do hope to include an electrician in my installations, this isn't the same as installing a switch, or even somebody that's familiar with solar.
        I prefer to understand what we are doing and why, hence the silly questions.
        I think the answer to my grounding question is basically do it as closely as possible to the building. Not sure if that will be possible with the shed, it's sitting pretty much on stone.
        Steel frame should do, but I found this article that recommends a grounding rod.. or i could just tie into house grounding, which is only 10 feet away.
        http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com/...bonding-rebar/

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a very sketchy topic. The first thing I would look at is to see what the installation instructions of the equipment you have and see what it calls for. I only say this bc the equipment may want to monitor the ground circuit to look for faults.

          The equipment may call for it's own ground rods who knows. The older equipment I had called for it's own ground rods. The new stuff said you can use the ac ground to the inverter all the way to ground the panels. (Which is probably the easiest solution) . As far as what I've seen from the code it maybe legal for the panels to use their own rod if it's just not practical to connect to the ac ground this would be considered an auxiliary ground and wouldn't be required to be tied to the other grounding rods. Some inspectors might fight you on that fact even though it defeats the purpose. My advice after you consult the installation documents is to contact the local inspector with that information in hand and see if they're ok with your plan.

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          • #6
            Everything needs to be grounded. The IronRidge UFO clamps will bond the solar modules to the rails, but you will need a ground lug on the rails. Then run that wire to your ground rod. You will also want a ground lug attached to the steel structure. Your structure appears to be welded steel, and the weld provides a good electrical connection, so you should be good with 1 lug on the structure.

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            • #7
              There are no local inspectors. I am most interested in protecting my investment. I will go with reading manuals, and consulting with electrician/solar installer.
              All practical advice in this thread so far makes sense.

              Comment


              • #8
                There are 2 types of grounding [B]and [/B]using multiple ground rods can lead to lightning shock hazzard

                [B]Thunder storm Lightning protection[/B]. This grounding is like the Ben Franklin ground systems. A heavy wire from the peak of the roof, to a substantial ground. This will attract and disperse a lightning strike. Most electronic gear will be destroyed anyway, but it prevents house & barn fires

                [B]AC Shock prevention[/B]. Grounded systems, when properly configured, help reduce lethal shocks from failing appliances.

                [B]Multiple ground rods[/B] Can create a high voltage gradient between them and electrocute someone in the gradient zone

                These are the issues, and you have to either learn the systems or rely on a electrician to properly implement them.
                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                Comment


                • #9
                  If lightning hits your roof/panels then whatever ground setup more than likely isn't going to keep the house from catching fire.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Markyrocks69 View Post
                    If lightning hits your roof/panels then whatever ground setup more than likely isn't going to keep the house from catching fire.
                    The Franklin Ground setup has saved countless buildings and barns from being burned . When it's installed properly. In the 1800's they didn't have any electronics to fry.

                    A properly grounded panel racking system is not going to burn. Individual panels may fry, and any electronics connected will be toasted, but the whole idea of lightning rods was to prevent fires

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightn...ure_protectors
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                      The Franklin Ground setup has saved countless buildings and barns from being burned . When it's installed properly. In the 1800's they didn't have any electronics to fry.

                      A properly grounded panel racking system is not going to burn. Individual panels may fry, and any electronics connected will be toasted, but the whole idea of lightning rods was to prevent fires

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightn...ure_protectors

                      https://youtu.be/Ypo99VRxT44 watch this from the 23:30 mark to the about the 30 min mark. He even states that the nec isn't a lightning protection standard. Grounding an array with a ground rod isn't a lightning protection system. Highly doubtful that grounding an array is going to make any difference if it get hits by lightning. I'd actually be highly interested in seeing some evidence otherwise.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I actually had a video backing up my POV. If you search mike holt grounding pv watch from the 23:30 mark to about 30 min. He basically says NEC isn't a lightning protection standard and simply grounding an array isn't going to make much of a difference. I'd love to see some evidence otherwise. That wiki link basically describes lightning termination devices and he talks about those in the video 2 but a lightning protection system is way different than simply grounding the array and driving a rod.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Markyrocks69 View Post
                          I actually had a video backing up my POV. If you search mike holt grounding pv watch from the 23:30 mark to about 30 min. He basically says NEC isn't a lightning protection standard and simply grounding an array isn't going to make much of a difference. I'd love to see some evidence otherwise. That wiki link basically describes lightning termination devices and he talks about those in the video 2 but a lightning protection system is way different than simply grounding the array and driving a rod.
                          So ? You are missing the point. There are 2 systems,
                          Structure Protection ( AKA Franklin lightning rods )
                          Household electric shock prevention ( NEC )
                          Neither excludes the other nor replaces the other. Both can co-exist.

                          I didn't call out the NEC as specific to house wiring code, but described the differences between the two - one prevents structure fires since 1749 , one prevents being shocked.

                          The NEC cares nothing about your house being struck and ignited by lightning, and in fact, some of their suggested techniques actually invite a strike into the building envelope. NEC only cares about electric shock potential from daily usage, not lightning protection.

                          As great as Mike Holt is, he's talking to licensed electricians, not Joe Homeowner. Poor Joe has very little chance of watching a video and then doing a great job, much as watching a heart transplant video, will enable Joe to perform a heart transplant correctly. Lots of little things, like bonding the wires to the ground rod, protecting the wires so they are not broken.....
                          Last edited by Mike90250; 08-28-2019, 12:51 AM.
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                            So ? You are missing the point. There are 2 systems,
                            Structure Protection ( AKA Franklin lightning rods )
                            Household electric shock prevention ( NEC )
                            Neither excludes the other nor replaces the other. Both can co-exist.

                            I didn't call out the NEC as specific to house wiring code, but described the differences between the two - one prevents structure fires since 1749 , one prevents being shocked.

                            The NEC cares nothing about your house being struck and ignited by lightning, and in fact, some of their suggested techniques actually invite a strike into the building envelope. NEC only cares about electric shock potential from daily usage, not lightning protection.
                            My apologies I gleaned over your last post I basically read the bullet points and assumed you were lumping in lightning protection with traditional array grounding. Probably has something to do with my lack of experience. Can you see about getting a previous post I had made published? Says its waiting moderator approval.

                            Fun fact Franklin never actually performed his famous kite experiment.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I built a ground mount array with 4 3 inch pipes into 6 feet of concrete. The entire frame was 3-inch pipe or aluminum rails bolted and clamped together. The rails were ok for grounding all the panels tied to the rail but I had to run copper from rail to rail. They would not count the 3-inch pipe as a ground path. I had to show a 6-foot copper ground rod to get past the office permit. This was the first ground mount in area. All of the solar inspectors came to inspect my install. They ask why I included the copper ground. Adding a ground rod should be a cheap way to make sure you pass.

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