Ground wire sizing for off-grid system

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  • real246
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2019
    • 3

    Ground wire sizing for off-grid system

    My first post so I'll introduce myself first. I'm in the middle of an off-grid house install (house is under construction), it's my own house by the way. 7.32kw PV, 28.8kw LiFePO4 batteries, Schneider Electric inverter (6848) and 2x 600-80 Charge controllers from Schneider Electric. I opted to only do the solar electrical portion and let a contractor take care of the A/C panel and beyond.

    I have yet to buy my grounding wire and that's always been my weak point, grounding, in terms of code compliance. I'm running 6 batteries, each 100AH, 48V. Each battery is using #2 copper for 3 feet and fed into a combiner (midnite model: MNBCB 1000/50), then that has a 7 foot copper run of 4/0 cable. All this is run in a 6x6 steel wireway.

    Note: This is an ungrounded/floating system, no current carrying conductor is connected to ground.

    So here's the meat of the question/confusion:

    Code (NEC 2014) says in 690.45 to reference 250.122 and it's easy(ish) to understand, just size the wire appropriately to the chart based on the amperage. BUT.........

    690.47 references 250.166 which states:

    (B)"Not Smaller Than the Largest Conductor. Where the
    dc system is other than as in 250.166(A), the grounding
    electrode conductor shall not be smaller than the largest
    conductor supplied by the system, and not smaller than
    8 AWG copper or 6 AWG aluminum. "

    This one makes me think I need 4/0 grounding cable to my concrete encased grounding rod (house foundation rebar) because I have a 4/0 cable in the system. So what gauge grounding wire do I run? I was prepared to buy #6 bare copper soft drawn but now I'm perplexed.

    Hopefully I provided enough details to get an answer or spark a discussion, if not let me know what else is needed.

    Ryan
  • Mike90250
    Moderator
    • May 2009
    • 16020

    #2
    That's a pickle. 4/O is going to melt rebar !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment

    • real246
      Junior Member
      • Jan 2019
      • 3

      #3
      Originally posted by Mike90250
      That's a pickle. 4/O is going to melt rebar !
      Indeed that would be a pickle.

      Can I use the language of 250.66(D) for my justification or am I stuck on (B)? My gut tells me (D) is appropriate after reading it for the 100th time in the past few days.

      "(D) Connected to a Concrete-Encased Electrode. Where connected to a concrete-encased electrode as in 250.52(A)(3), that portion of the grounding electrode conductor that is the sole connection to the grounding electrode shall not be required to be larger than 4 A WG copper wire."

      Comment

      • Mike90250
        Moderator
        • May 2009
        • 16020

        #4
        So, I don't know the particulars of the code, just the intent and what I had to do 10 years ago. I had to use 1/2" rebar, an unbroken 20' stick, and well connected to the rest of the rebar mesh in the foundation. I think we used #6 or #4 copper.

        Talk to your electrician buddy or the inspection department, lay out your thoughts, and ask what they would like to see you do. The inspector is going to see it eventually
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment

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