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  • FlashFoot2 Installation real world description and tips

    I must admit, getting these guys installed securely and leak-free was the single most worrisome and scariest part of my DIY install. I had no concerns over any electrical, panel mounting, conduit bending, code compliance, etc., but getting my mounts installed where I don't create a roof leak KEPT ME AWAKE on more than one night.

    There's literally 2 videos on youtube, one from manufacturer and one from a DIYer, showing these getting installed, and very little text anywhere demonstrating the installation of these. As such, I want to share my experience with these.

    Below are the general instructions I followed for each mount. I ended up buying one of the D-Tect 150 scanners, though somewhat quickly realized that it's just as easy to use the "hammer and listen" method.

    1) Measure X number of inches from last mount (24, 48, 72", since I have 24" OC trusses) or just start with roughly where the first mount needs to be.
    2) Use a hammer to sound-out where the truss is. I've found this method to basically be the most accurate, even better than using the D-tect 150.
    3) Drill a small hole (I used smallest bit I had, like 1/8" or something) to see if you're right, if there's a truss there.
    4) If you hit truss, skip to step 7.
    5) If you missed, which you can tell because your bit will drill through the shingle, sheathing, then nice open air, then take a bent clothes hanger wire, stick in the hole, and turn it left or right. If you were close, you'll hit the truss with the wire turned either left or right, and can get an idea of how far away you are. Take your estimate of how far away you are and add 3/4" to get to the truss center(-ish).
    6) Drill again with small bit and see if you've hit. Go back to step 5 if you missed again (I've only missed twice on one mount, my small holes ended up on both sides of the truss)
    7) Drill the 1/4" hole needed by the mount. At this point, it's possible that when this gets drilled, you were too close to the edge of the truss, and the bit will break-out from the left or right side. If this is the case, then you need to move more centered to the truss, and also move slightly up or down the truss.
    8) Take your flat roofing bar, with built-in nail pullers, and start gently separating the shingle above your hole (or below it if the hole is near the bottom of the shingle), shove the mount's flashing under the separated shingle and see if you hit any nails. If so, either pry them up, separate shingle above, and use nail pull to rip it out, or... just pry it up, hammer down, pry up, until the nail pulls through that shingle. When that happens, you can slide the mount's flashing OVER this nail. I like doing that better since I don't have to separate the shingles on the next row up, and it's generally faster.
    9) Once you can get the mount fully inserted under the shingle, fill in all holes with sealant, including your "real" one. Then, put a half-circle line of sealant above the hole so that if water does somehow reach that hole (under the mount's flashing) then it will get pushed to the side and run down the roof. Also, if your hole was near the bottom of the shingle, then you should have slid the mount under THAT shingle, instead of the one above, then use shears to cut a path into that shingle so that the mount will go under it (I'll put up a pic of this).
    10) Slide the mount in place, line it up with horizontal and vertical marks you made around the hole. Then, use your clothes hanger wire to locate the drilled hole through the mount's hole. I added this step because I noticed on some mounts I had done before, I had thought the mount's hole lined up with the hole I drilled, and I started gently screwing the lag bolt down by hand. However, something didn't feel right and I removed the mount, and noticed that the lag bolt was cutting its own new hole in the shingles, missing the pilot hole I had drilled. Using a clothes hanger wire to ensure mount-to-hole alignment before even hand screwing the bolt down guarantees you don't miss your intended pilot hole.
    11) Drill the lag bolt down, and screw on the mounting cap! That's it.

    There's two general mounting positions for these, fully over the drilled shingle, or partway under the next shingle up. See the two picture attachments for examples. The partway up method takes a little longer since you have to cut a halfcircle out of the next shingle up, but in my opinion is safer against leaks. It would take a significant upward (up the roof I mean) wind-driven rain to get water to the drill hole. Whereas, with the other method, a nice sideways wind-driven rain would do it, which would seem more likely to me. Though, I have a nice 60/40 mix of both, about 60% using the method that doesn't require shingle cutting.

    One additional note, I did not use the same trusses in vertical columns for every row, as it seems most installers probably do. I alternated evenly between rows, thus spreading the load from 1/3 of my trusses to all 3/3rd of them.

    What I mean is, I didn't mount these like this:
    ---X--------X--------X--------X---
    ---X--------X--------X--------X---

    I mounted like this:
    ---X--------X--------X--------X---
    -X--------X--------X--------X---X
    X--------X--------X--------X--X--
    ----X--------X--------X--------X--

    Anyway, you get the idea. You'll see what I mean in one of the photos.
    Attached Files
    https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=54099

  • #2
    If you go to QuickMount PVs website, they have a number of videos on flashing install. They're basically all the same.
    One change is that some manufacturers recommend pulling nails that are in your way, while others instruct you to simply notch the flashing with a pair of tin snips.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by emartin00 View Post
      If you go to QuickMount PVs website, they have a number of videos on flashing install. They're basically all the same.
      One change is that some manufacturers recommend pulling nails that are in your way, while others instruct you to simply notch the flashing with a pair of tin snips.
      Notching had occurred to me while I was installing these, but it seemed 'too simple' and if it was a good idea then IronRidge would have included it in the install instructions.

      However, if I had to do another install today, then I would employ my 'pry nail up, hammer down (with fist! ), pry up again' method. I was able to pull 95% of nails through the shingle using this method, a rare few wouldn't pull thru and I had to actually remove them. Then, you just hammer it flat, or flat enough, so that you could slide the flashing over it. I will say, tho, that you had to put the flatbar under the flashing and lift it to get it over the nails, even when hammered flat. This method is faster and safer (leak wise) than pulling the nail since you don't have to separate the shingle row above, and likely faster than notching.
      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=54099

      Comment


      • #4
        Once again, I just talked to the Certainteed people at SPI last week and they confirmed that yes, retrofit installing solar mount flashings very much does violate their shingle warranty.
        BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by solarix View Post
          Once again, I just talked to the Certainteed people at SPI last week and they confirmed that yes, retrofit installing solar mount flashings very much does violate their shingle warranty.
          Does the warranty void for those shingles also include professional solar installers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Despite what some of the solar mount companies will sometimes tell you, the shingle manufacturers say that if you break shingle seals or pull out shingle nails the roof warranty is voided, period. Of course, roof warranties are almost impossible to actually make use of as the manufacturers can wiggle out of them many ways. Long before you can force your shingle maker to replace your roof, your insurance company will. But I still say that claiming that solar flashings are "best practice" when they patently violate shingle warranties is bogus.
            Oh, and it kills me how the Quick Mount installation video shows just putting "a little sealer" on the pulled nail holes, when the whole idea of the flashing is to not rely upon sealers.
            BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by solarix View Post
              Once again, I just talked to the Certainteed people at SPI last week and they confirmed that yes, retrofit installing solar mount flashings very much does violate their shingle warranty.
              Virtually everything violates an asphalt roof warranty.
              My uncle tried to get his "20 year roof" replaced after 10 years, but was denied because we get x number of days of snow, and his roof was more than 30 feet above ground level, plus some other crap they claimed.
              If it doesn't leak, I don't care about the roofing warranty.

              Comment


              • #8
                I put a sealant in the hole under the flashing plate... Geocel Proflex or something similar. Never had an issue with them that I know of.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by emartin00 View Post
                  If you go to QuickMount PVs website, they have a number of videos on flashing install. They're basically all the same.
                  One change is that some manufacturers recommend pulling nails that are in your way, while others instruct you to simply notch the flashing with a pair of tin snips.
                  You are correct, the Quick Mount PV composition shingle installation videos redundantly refer to the time tested method of having the flashing reach the third course of shingles above the nail line, reaching the true waterproofing zone. As per the nail obstruction, it is recommended to remove the nail to allow the flashing to reach under the third course of shingles. If the flashing is altered, the the product warranty is voided. The attachment can hopefully shed some light.


                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by solarix View Post
                    Once again, I just talked to the Certainteed people at SPI last week and they confirmed that yes, retrofit installing solar mount flashings very much does violate their shingle warranty.
                    I do not doubt that you met Certainteed at Solar Power International recently. For your consideration I have attached a letter from Certainteed stating that the proper use of Quick Mount PV products will not result in a voided roof warranty.

                    If you would like more information on how to install a solar system to your roof that can last a lifetime, please do not hesitate to reach out.

                    Anthony Halkyer
                    Quick Mount PV
                    925.478.8742

                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by solarix View Post
                      Despite what some of the solar mount companies will sometimes tell you, the shingle manufacturers say that if you break shingle seals or pull out shingle nails the roof warranty is voided, period. Of course, roof warranties are almost impossible to actually make use of as the manufacturers can wiggle out of them many ways. Long before you can force your shingle maker to replace your roof, your insurance company will. But I still say that claiming that solar flashings are "best practice" when they patently violate shingle warranties is bogus.
                      Oh, and it kills me how the Quick Mount installation video shows just putting "a little sealer" on the pulled nail holes, when the whole idea of the flashing is to not rely upon sealers.
                      I totally agree with you. There certainly is a lot being said out there in relation to roof warranties. And roofing companies, or any company for that matter, can legitimately state that manipulating or using their product outside of its intention would void the product warranty for good reason.

                      I am so glad that you bring up this subject. Quick Mount PV has been in business for more than 10 years and actively works with major roofing manufacturers such as GAF, PABCO Roofing Products, and Owens Corning Roofing to make sure that Quick Mount PV solar mounts are in line with what they recommend. In fact, the GAF Golden Pledge Warranty, the best roof warranty in the business from the biggest shingle company, recognizes our Classic Composition and E-Mounts in their Golden Pledge Warranty where pulling nails is a formally recognized procedure and using sealant is a complement to the flashing.

                      I understand that in Quick Mount PV videos that state putting "a little sealer" on the pulled nail holes may sound hypocritical, but that little bit of sealer under the flashing adds extra piece of mind and cheap insurance to the installer and to the homeowner.

                      I've attached the GAF letter that was mentioned, a PABCO Roofing Products letter, and a Owens Corning Roofing letter that state that using specific Quick Mount PV products will not void the roofing warranty as long as they are installed correctly as per the instructions.

                      If there is a roofing company that you think would be good to reference, then I would be happy to cross check that roofing company with the plethora of certified roofing letters that are publicly available.

                      Anthony Halkyer
                      Quick Mount PV
                      925.478.8742
                      anthony.halkyer@quickmountpv.com


                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Respect the Roof; 10-27-2017, 07:25 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Respect the Roof View Post
                        If you would like more information on how to install a solar system to your roof that can last a lifetime, please do not hesitate to reach out.
                        Hi Anthony,

                        It's good to have someone from a major racking manufacturer on the forum. We hope that you will stay and contribute to the discussions and offer authoritative advice and clarify misunderstandings about your products when needed. However, we do ask that you not use the forum to promote your products or try to win over customers, as some of your posts seem to be doing.

                        Steve


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