Ground mounting setup

[Mike90250]

I'd like to discourage folks from thinking about using aluminun with concrete

http://www.concreteconstruction.net/how-to/repair/the-aluminum-and-concrete-controversy_o

[bcroe]

Bruce, How far down did you go down for your concrete posts?

Somebody else did the south facing concrete with coated aluminum bars embedded at the top. As I recall they did a bit of
a footing in a post hole with some rebar, about 48" down. Then a tube. That array is all custom drilled 6061 aluminum,
good stuff. At the time it might have been cheaper than racking, but at last check aluminum had gone way up. Bruce

[Dsspro]

Bruce,

Thanks for sharing!!!

How far down did you go down for your concrete posts?

[bcroe]

NSbuba.jpgimage_9054.jpg Here are a couple pictures of what is buried, and above ground details. You can just see the edges of a linolium square
between the aluminum angle and the wood, on a 7" SS bolt. Bruce Roe

[bcroe]

What I really need is 4 of those mounts in the back. The wooden one looks simple enough, but why panels on both sides and why such a steep angle? Is there some bracing underneath I can't see or are there aluminum beams all the way across the upper part of the a-frame?

The system construction is shown in considerable detail on my PHOTOBUCKET user bcroe, on a sub album of album
ENERGY CONSERVATION. Why its built that way is described in the thread SUN HOURS here. There is a 5 piece
assembly buried at 10 intervals, to about an accuracy of 1/2"; they slope downhill about 10% from the camera. Then
a laser was used to establish the precise location of the above ground horizontals, roughly following the slope. The
verticals were added with aluminum horizontals for the panels. All accuracy was defined by the location of holes drilled
to 1/16" or better on the shop drill press, not much sawing. One month of construction for 1 guy.

Here is the link (requiring approval)

http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/L71/bcroe/

click on an Album
click on a picture to enlarge + description

The far array is the classic "SW Desert" design facing south. The near array adds energy collected at sun rise and
sun set, without requiring any additional inverters or other plant. In addition all panels become active under
the dispersed light of clouds (common here), giving the inverters a lot more to do then. Bruce Roe

[supertrucker]

You can build a support quite cheaply with treated wood; needs all the wiring of a roof array, and the approval of
your inspector. I built this one as something of an experiment, expecting it to last at least 5 years. After 4 winters
it appears to still be in pretty good shape. Don't bolt aluminum directly to treated wood; I used a big linoleum washer
to separate them on long stainless bolts. Those aren't just posts in the ground; there is a whole connecting
structure buried in a trench, filled in with dirt and rock. Bruce Roe
NSnview.jpg

What I really need is 4 of those mounts in the back. The wooden one looks simple enough, but why panels on both sides and why such a steep angle? Is there some bracing underneath I can't see or are there aluminum beams all the way across the upper part of the a-frame?

[bcroe]

I guess I am still in the research phase. I have found significantly cheaper pricing on certain items like the inverter, panels, wire, but the ground mounting stuff seems quite pricey unless I was to build a wooden structure. I am not sure if that is a good way to go or if I would like the looks of that? I'm guessing if I had to rebuild in 10 years after the wood deteriorates that would be annoying. I don't believe it snowed at all where I am located this year. It can snow a foot or so with any event in Oklahoma City though. I have a 30 year old storm shelter that is made out of concrete. If I could somehow utilize that to make a mount maybe that would be cheaper. I have also debated just digging it up since it leaks.

You can build a support quite cheaply with treated wood; needs all the wiring of a roof array, and the approval of
your inspector. I built this one as something of an experiment, expecting it to last at least 5 years. After 4 winters
it appears to still be in pretty good shape. Don't bolt aluminum directly to treated wood; I used a big linoleum washer
to separate them on long stainless bolts. Those aren't just posts in the ground; there is a whole connecting
structure buried in a trench, filled in with dirt and rock. Bruce Roe

NSnview.jpg

[supertrucker]

I guess I am still in the research phase. I have found significantly cheaper pricing on certain items like the inverter, panels, wire, but the ground mounting stuff seems quite pricey unless I was to build a wooden structure. I am not sure if that is a good way to go or if I would like the looks of that? I'm guessing if I had to rebuild in 10 years after the wood deteriorates that would be annoying. I don't believe it snowed at all where I am located this year. It can snow a foot or so with any event in Oklahoma City though. I have a 30 year old storm shelter that is made out of concrete. If I could somehow utilize that to make a mount maybe that would be cheaper. I have also debated just digging it up since it leaks.

[tyab]

Had to clear snow just three times so far and I used that freeze proof hydrant to hose them off. Toss enough water and that snow just slid right off. But I don't get snow like many of you do - worst was under a foot - I doubt it would work for feet of snow. Speaking of hydrant - I would highly recommend running a 1" water line (below your frost line) to somewhere near your ground mount and install a freeze proof hydrant. If nothing else you can clean the bird droppings off easier in the warmer months. I used a Woodford (HomeDepot online had lowest prices when I was looking) and you can get them in whatever depth you need to be below the frost line. Check your local codes, I was able to run a PVC water line in the same trench as the electrical conduit without any separation - heck I called the AHJ and asked him what was allowed and just followed what he said to do.

Oh and learn from our mistakes. I failed to run an empty electrical conduit like 1-1/4" down to the ground mount in the same trench that electrical was in. Doing it will just cost you the conduit and the time to install it in the trench which is a small fraction of your project.Then if for whatever reason you need ethernet down there - just pull a wet rated cat 6 cable and your good to go. Still kicking myself for failing to do that. Maybe in the future you would like a PoE camera or weather station down there. If you use Enphase micro's you may want that Envoy unit at the ground mount to ensure good communication to the micros.

Let us know how your research is progressing.

[SunEagle]

Dang. How do you clear the snow off them panels tyab?

[tyab]

Supertrucker - as previously stated check out IronRidge. Their ground mount system does support both high snow and high wind loads. You can make a free account and play with the design tool to get an idea of what a ground installation looks like. Just be aware that ground installations costs can really add up especially if you have any distance from your home - but you also have many options available to help control costs.

Local codes for me required 100 MPH wind calc but minimal snow load and I was able to use one of their pre engineered setups. 3" galvanized pipe, 24" holes 5' deep. 4 holes per 20 panel mount. Landscape mode, 4 wide by 5 high. I get minimal snow (4 times over the winter, maybe a foot at a time) so not too bad to remove. If you have significant snowfall then listen to the folks in this forum that have to deal with heavy snow.

Here are some low res pics - click to see them in high res.

[SunEagle]

I am at 1400 feet of elevation and the summit of Mt Washington is 6300 feet so a bit of difference in available wind resources. Wind speeds routinely go over 100 MPH on the summit but its way too turbulent to install wind turbines. There is an off the grid mountain hut (Lake the Clouds) above treeline about 1000 feet below the summit that does use airx turbines along with a PV array to keep their batteries charged. Its only open from June to September and they reportedly go through a lot of turbines. Mt Washington is in the White Mountain National Forest which pretty much owns a lot of the ridgelines that normally would be developed. Note Mt Washington is only about 70 miles from the ocean so the surrounding valleys are 500 to 1000 feet above see level so the mountain sticks up quite a bit from the surrounding terrain. It is also at the intersection of three storms tracks and the high winds are generally caused by steep pressure differentials between weather systems. There is a weather observatory on the summit that is open year round and they do some product testing. There was at one time a military facility used to test early jet engine designs. The problem with the summit conditions is they have severe icing as the upwind air from the surrounding lower valleys is quite damp. Due to the elevation difference, the summits tend to be below freezing, so any moisture coming up from the valleys freezes instantly on any surfaces (including any wind turbines). I expect a year round turbine would be lump of ice and come crashing down pretty quickly.

There is a large (for the east) wind farm north of my place and much smaller wind farm one town north plus a few farms south of the whites on whatever ridgelines that don't have protection (lots of conservation organizations have bought the ridgelines) Small wind is pretty much non existent, the wind is really not that consistent and the terrain leads to low level turbulence. When weather systems do come through the area the winds are too high for most small wind turbines. Northern Power has a few of their "boutique" 100 KW turbines in the region. They were designed for artic conditions and do seem to hold up to local conditions but they are mostly PR devices for businesses to look green or owned by non profits that put them in with lots of grants..

The other issue is the areas around the mountains has a lot of folks with summer places and a fair share of folks who moved north from Mass to get away from it all and that includes wind turbines, most towns have very restrictive zoning against wind turbines and usually the maximum tower height is 32 feet. One of the tricks of the trade for wind farm developers is to site a farm in rural towns and just throw money at the local residents to get approval. The folks in the surrounding towns get the visual impact but they don't get a dime.

As long as we keep net metering I will stick with PV panels I generate a surplus and heat my house with a 1 ton mini split if the temps over 30 degrees. That and about 3 cords of wood in my wood boiler is all I use for heat which is pretty good considering I see -30 F on occasion.

I understand the harshness of the weather on Mt Washington and the rest of your area. It can't be an easy way to live. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

[dannw1431]

That looks like a pretty simple setup. What brand/type of mount is that? I saw mounting kit on ebay that uses unistrut that kinda looks like this one. I know that stuff is pretty solid, but I didn't know if the configuration would be good for wind.

I used Unirac for the mounting system. Seems solid and sturdy for my needs. See attached

[peakbagger]

Wow. Do you qualify for a wind turbine in your area or is it too much to get the large clearance around it?

I am at 1400 feet of elevation and the summit of Mt Washington is 6300 feet so a bit of difference in available wind resources. Wind speeds routinely go over 100 MPH on the summit but its way too turbulent to install wind turbines. There is an off the grid mountain hut (Lake the Clouds) above treeline about 1000 feet below the summit that does use airx turbines along with a PV array to keep their batteries charged. Its only open from June to September and they reportedly go through a lot of turbines. Mt Washington is in the White Mountain National Forest which pretty much owns a lot of the ridgelines that normally would be developed. Note Mt Washington is only about 70 miles from the ocean so the surrounding valleys are 500 to 1000 feet above see level so the mountain sticks up quite a bit from the surrounding terrain. It is also at the intersection of three storms tracks and the high winds are generally caused by steep pressure differentials between weather systems. There is a weather observatory on the summit that is open year round and they do some product testing. There was at one time a military facility used to test early jet engine designs. The problem with the summit conditions is they have severe icing as the upwind air from the surrounding lower valleys is quite damp. Due to the elevation difference, the summits tend to be below freezing, so any moisture coming up from the valleys freezes instantly on any surfaces (including any wind turbines). I expect a year round turbine would be lump of ice and come crashing down pretty quickly.

There is a large (for the east) wind farm north of my place and much smaller wind farm one town north plus a few farms south of the whites on whatever ridgelines that don't have protection (lots of conservation organizations have bought the ridgelines) Small wind is pretty much non existent, the wind is really not that consistent and the terrain leads to low level turbulence. When weather systems do come through the area the winds are too high for most small wind turbines. Northern Power has a few of their "boutique" 100 KW turbines in the region. They were designed for artic conditions and do seem to hold up to local conditions but they are mostly PR devices for businesses to look green or owned by non profits that put them in with lots of grants..

The other issue is the areas around the mountains has a lot of folks with summer places and a fair share of folks who moved north from Mass to get away from it all and that includes wind turbines, most towns have very restrictive zoning against wind turbines and usually the maximum tower height is 32 feet. One of the tricks of the trade for wind farm developers is to site a farm in rural towns and just throw money at the local residents to get approval. The folks in the surrounding towns get the visual impact but they don't get a dime.

As long as we keep net metering I will stick with PV panels I generate a surplus and heat my house with a 1 ton mini split if the temps over 30 degrees. That and about 3 cords of wood in my wood boiler is all I use for heat which is pretty good considering I see -30 F on occasion.

[supertrucker]

I mounted these on the ground in MA and we get a lot of snow. I use a brush designed for washing RV's with soft brissels and it works great. I extended the pole to reach the top of the panel it works fine. I noticed the day after a snow storm, all the clouds clear out and it's really bright. I believe the snow albedo affect kicks in and my panels crank out the power

That looks like a pretty simple setup. What brand/type of mount is that? I saw mounting kit on ebay that uses unistrut that kinda looks like this one. I know that stuff is pretty solid, but I didn't know if the configuration would be good for wind.