Cheap and/or good monitoring?

[cracovian]

I couldn't resist the price ($315!) for 300 Watt LG ACe panels (285 W micros built-in) and I just ordered 10 to put at the bottom of my existing two rows to use one spare conduit.

I already have 16 M250s hooked up to Envoy that I enjoy very much. This new addition won't come with monitoring of any kind (even LG's own Enerbox apparently doesn't work well with them or at all), so any ideas what I can use? eGauge seems decent but it's somewhat expensive and not straightforward to install... Is it worth the price or is there anything else I should consider that would also send data into PV Output maybe?

I'm thinking I'll just have them go straight into my panel and skip data altogether but it will mess with my OCD in the end

[cracovian]

I came across TED Pro that comes out to about $500 which is less and it seems more polished along with more documentation than eGauge.

Does anyone have experience with one or the other and have any recommendation?

[cracovian]

Yeah, thanks for all of your suggestions, guys! Not...

Anyway, I finally got the AC panels installed last weekend and while I was looking for last-minute energy monitoring, the recently released CURB popped up and I had that put in. I'm glad I waited and it seems to do exactly what I needed and then some.

The cost of adding that 3 kW row ended up being $4,750 for parts and $1,500 for CURB and labor, so $2.08/Watt. Not terribly bad.

[cracovian]

[sensij]

$400 for 18 channels of monitoring is pretty low, although I'm not seeing much on their site about whose CT's they are using or what the expected accuracy is. I don't really understand the picture though... did you individually run each of the new LG's to the sub-panel to get panel level monitoring, or are those all load breakers with just two PV supplies (Enphase and LG), so you can monitor only the combined output of the new LG string?

[cracovian]

There are two 30 Amp CTs monitoring production from two solar breakers at the bottom (one for 16 enphases and the other one for the 10-count AC string), so no panel level monitoring for sure

I figured that when my 300 Watt Neons max out in the full sun (M250s max out at 250-255 often now), I should see at least 2.5 kW on that second string since it's the same NeON panel used in the AC flavor (hopefully more with those 'amazing on paper' LG 285 micros)

Unfortunately, we will have rain and clouds for many days to come but rough comparisons tell me that these new AC panels are working quite well so far.

[silversaver]

It is always interesting when seeing people using new product. What is the degree of accuracy? Revenue grade meter?

I saw you using 2 powerline adapters, how is the communication with 2 devices running on the same power line? The reason I ask is I use 2 powerline adapter for my Locus monitoring and TED5000 and it seems give me more downtime.

[SunEagle]

$400 for 18 channels of monitoring is pretty low, although I'm not seeing much on their site about whose CT's they are using or what the expected accuracy is. I don't really understand the picture though... did you individually run each of the new LG's to the sub-panel to get panel level monitoring, or are those all load breakers with just two PV supplies (Enphase and LG), so you can monitor only the combined output of the new LG string?

Based on the number of those CT's and the price they would not be very accurate. But you may not need 0.2% accuracy for what you are measuring.

[cracovian]

It is always interesting when seeing people using new product. What is the degree of accuracy? Revenue grade meter?

I saw you using 2 powerline adapters, how is the communication with 2 devices running on the same power line? The reason I ask is I use 2 powerline adapter for my Locus monitoring and TED5000 and it seems give me more downtime.

The spec sheet was impressive and I believe it said 1% accuracy which is perfect for me.

The original Enphase box came with an AV200 powerline adapter and it didn't work on my AV500-based network. I plugged it in one of mine and it's been perfect ever since. I ordered some extras (same Zyxel model) when getting the CURB but to my surprise I noticed a Trendnet (?) AV500 plug was included. Still, it didn't work, so another Zyxel went in and it's all been great. My electrician said the same circuit wouldn't be a problem and installed the extra box.

The CURB app is not refined but effective. Real-time CT consumption (literally one second behind) is expressed in $/week bars, so definitely awkward but changes accordingly.

All CTs worked and covered my moderate needs (I could use a few more) except for the upstairs cooktop which I thought was mislabeled with the downstairs range. However, cooktop consumption suddenly started to register today, so who knows...

I'm most interested to see my house consumption vs. production vs. what I'm putting into the grid and the app shows me this information instantly.

I can reverse flow for each CT with a simple click (+/-), so when I get a third solar string, I'll just raid one of the existing consumption 30As.

Installation instructions were a bit lacking but when we called customer service Saturday afternoon, a knowledgable guy picked up and answered my electrician's questions. They will apparently switch your CTs for smaller or larger sizes if needed.

The API is in the works and as long as they stay in business, and the product keeps growing and is reliable, I'll be very happy.

[SunEagle]

The spec sheet was impressive and I believe it said 1% accuracy which is perfect for me.

The original Enphase box came with an AV200 powerline adapter and it didn't work on my AV500-based network. I plugged it in one of mine and it's been perfect ever since. I ordered some extras (same Zyxel model) when getting the CURB but to my surprise I noticed a Trendnet (?) AV500 plug was included. Still, it didn't work, so another Zyxel went in and it's all been great. My electrician said the same circuit wouldn't be a problem and installed the extra box.

The CURB app is not refined but effective. Real-time CT consumption (literally one second behind) is expressed in $/week bars, so definitely awkward but changes accordingly.

All CTs worked and covered my moderate needs (I could use a few more) except for the upstairs cooktop which I thought was mislabeled with the downstairs range. However, cooktop consumption suddenly started to register today, so who knows...

I'm most interested to see my house consumption vs. production vs. what I'm putting into the grid and the app shows me this information instantly.

I can reverse flow for each CT with a simple click (+/-), so when I get a third solar string, I'll just raid one of the existing consumption 30As.

Installation instructions were a bit lacking but when we called customer service Saturday afternoon, a knowledgable guy picked up and answered my electrician's questions. They will apparently switch your CTs for smaller or larger sizes if needed.

The API is in the works and as long as they stay in business, and the product keeps growing and is reliable, I'll be very happy.

Well if those CT's have a 1% accuracy I would be purchasing hundreds of them for my job. Closed loop CT's are usually less expensive then any type of split core, clamp on or flex type. A really good low price is around $30 each so 18 of those would come to $540 and that doesn't include the meter.

A meter that can measure 3 single phase loads will cost $200 to $400. A meter that can measure 18 single phase loads would cost over $3000 unless they are a piece of junk or have a much lower accuracy then 3% and no where close to revenue grade accuracy.

I am just saying that for $400 you can get some type of load readings for your home but not as good as the POCO;s meter can.

[cracovian]

Well if those CT's have a 1% accuracy I would be purchasing hundreds of them for my job. Closed loop CT's are usually less expensive then any type of split core, clamp on or flex type. A really good low price is around $30 each so 18 of those would come to $540 and that doesn't include the meter.

A meter that can measure 3 single phase loads will cost $200 to $400. A meter that can measure 18 single phase loads would cost over $3000 unless they are a piece of junk or have a much lower accuracy then 3% and no where close to revenue grade accuracy.

I am just saying that for $400 you can get some type of load readings for your home but not as good as the POCO;s meter can.

Not that I disagree with you or anything (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) but here's pic of what they're claiming. Obviously, I didn't care that much - just happy about what I'm getting and as long as it works and is close enough...

[SunEagle]

Not that I disagree with you or anything (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) but here's pic of what they're claiming. Obviously, I didn't care that much - just happy about what I'm getting and as long as it works and is close enough...

Well that spec is for the meter not the CT's. I will research it a little more.

I can tell you that using power quality meters and components is part of my job and IMO what you are getting for $400 will not be as accurate as they claim but might be good enough for a home owner wanting to know how much power they use.

[cracovian]

Also, it'd be interesting to see how it compares to others in the price range. With all the CTs, included powerline adapter, and real-time updates (no historical though which I don't care for), we'll see where they're going with this.

I would still love to upload my data to pvoutput one day.

The timing and my needs were a perfect match for $400

I can't wait for a day of full sun to see what's going on with my new ACs...

[sensij]

I just pulled the trigger last week on buying an EGauge at work, to support measurements of three phase power consumption.... thanks in part to some of the feedback given by other forum members. I'll have feedback soon to share with those interested, but the interface looks slick.

The meter itself is base 1% accuracy for about $500, with 12 CT capability. For $30 more, the 1% accuracy is verified with a calibration certificate, and for another $50 on top of that, calibration to 0.5% will be certified.

They offer Magnelab split core CT's starting at $35, but state that the published system accuracy only applies when using revenue-grade CT's, costing at least $50 ea direct from the mfg, or $65 through EGauge for the C0.6 rating. All these CT's are 0.333 mV full scale.

On my home system, I went with EKM metering, which offers a three channel ANSI meter with 12.20 Class 0.5 accuracy, $220 base or $275 with a cert. It requires CT's with 26.6 mA full scale output, and claims that the split and solid cores models they sell are 0.1% accuracy class. The split cores start at $40, the solids at $15... I bought the solid cores and didn't pay for the meter cert, and although I haven't put it on the service feed to verify accuracy directly against the Poco meter, I can say that the gross consumption calculations (net consumption from Poco meter - PV generation from EKM meter) come out very consistent throughout the day, leading me to believe that the accuracy is as stated. The CT's don't appear to be re-branded, although the meter itself is made in China (at one point with exclusive distribution through EKM in the USA), and it wouldn't be surprising if the CT's are as well.

The CT's used with Curb appear to be the Magnelabs in one of the pictures on their site. They say in the copy that they have seen 99.5% accuracy on their systems, but it is hard to trust without rigorous testing, For $400, there is almost no way they can be making money on this... but they did close over $1M in a seed round last year following the successful Indiegogo campaign, so that probably covers the unit losses and then some. It looks like their business plan is going to veer more towards services than hardware, so selling these early systems at cost or less just to get them out there could make sense.

On a completely different note, it is really unusual to see the PV breakers located right next to the supply breaker. In the picture the supply breaker is 200 A, so if the busbar is only 200 A as well, it is not NEC compliant.

[cracovian]

Thank you so much for your response. What are the drawbacks and dangers of having the PV breakers located so close to the supply line? Also, what if they're moved up a couple of rows? How would you make it compliant?

I have noticed unexplained production issues when getting close to max solar output AND using a high draw (like a couple of 1.5 kW of column heaters) at the same time. Could this be one of the gremlins?