Look at my solar system pics and help me finish the project (:

[inetdog]

Gotcha, yes, I recognize that DC rated units must be built a little different. I just figure that since weve used ac breakers on our previous system which has lasted 20 years, I now dont know if its such a big deal, at least for a small system. As far as these 2 disconnects I was going to use instead of a throw switch, these disconnects are rated for 60a and ill only be putting 30a into them. Theyre also just a basic metal to metal switch and since they are fusible I figure it would just be easiest to use it instead. Ill look into that more tho.

1. So could I just run 4 sets of 3x280w panels in series to 1 fuse? Or would it be smarter to run each set to its individual 15a dc breaker? I was going to use some fuses, but now Im thinking of running each series setup into a dc breaker, Im just not sure where to get a box for dc. So Im on the look out too. Thank you for the insight.




1. Great, thanks, I gave our panel supplier a ring and he said they were 24v nominal panels, so I could run 3 in series and not 4. So Ill simply change up what wires Ive got run and voila.

2. Do you think 3x280w panels in series would be happy with 3 12 gauge wires to the pos and 3 12 gauge wires to the neg, then run 70 feet? That would be 72v all the way underground to the breakers and controller. Maybe I should use 4 or 5 12 gauge for each pos and neg. YES, I know its a wild setup, but there are several people doing things without others input which is why Im here asking to verify if theyve got things correct. So please dont shoot me.

You are making a common mistake when talking about panel voltages. There are two important voltages to know when configuring a series string, Voc and Vmp.
When operating, the voltage on the panel terminals will range somewhere between Voc and Vmp unless you are using a PWM Charge Controller.
If you are using a PWM controller, the voltage at the input terminals is going to be not more than a volt or two above the battery voltage under charge. Pretty much guaranteed to be less than Vmp. A PWM controller will waste any power corresponding to a higher voltage than that of the PWM input.

Because of that a panel designed for battery charging using a PWM controller will have the lowest voltage possible that will work well with any PWM controller.
That means that the Vmp will be 2 or 3 volts above the highest voltage the battery will charge at. For a 12 volt battery, Vmp will typically be 18 volts for such a panel, but the panel is called a 12V nominal panel.
A panel designed for use with a PWM CC and a 24V battery bank will have a Vmp of about 36 volts, and will be called a nominal 24V panel. Voc will be about 1.2 times Vmp, i.e. 44V, for silicon panels

So when you multiply the 24V figure by the number of panels in a string you are seriously underestimating the string voltage.

[sensij]

Ok, let's try a different approach. If you don't have full control of the installation (it sounds like you don't), even getting the "right" answer to the limited questions you are asking will still not result in a successful outcome. All you are doing with the feedback here is enabling the bad practice by others. If you really want this to work, maybe a strategy to consider would be to step away from the installation completely. Let these others who you can't control do it their way, and when something burns up, you can be ready to step in and start over. Spend the time between now and then learning how to do the system right (hint, it will be grid-tied, probably with a generator to cover in the event of an outage if you need it, not batteries).

Based on the way money is getting thrown away, there must not really be a budget for this, so no harm done when you start from scratch later, as long as someone doesn't get hurt when it fails.

[hollywoodtoday]

Awesome, good info. Thank you!

You have not listened to our advice. We are trying to keep you from harming your grandfather. You cannot use AC equipment for DC. DC is harder to break than AC because it never crosses 0V like AC does, and unless it is designed to do it, it will not properly protect the line and is very dangerous. The fact that you are insisting there is nothing dangerous about your system proves that you are not listening to us. You just provided a link to a professional solar company. Why will you not call them? It's free to talk! It's what they (we) do. And please listen to what you are told. DC equipment costs more than AC for a reason, so stop trying to take the cheap, unsafe way out.

Gotcha, yes, I recognize that DC rated units must be built a little different. I just figure that since weve used ac breakers on our previous system which has lasted 20 years, I now dont know if its such a big deal, at least for a small system. As far as these 2 disconnects I was going to use instead of a throw switch, these disconnects are rated for 60a and ill only be putting 30a into them. Theyre also just a basic metal to metal switch and since they are fusible I figure it would just be easiest to use it instead. Ill look into that more tho.

1. So could I just run 4 sets of 3x280w panels in series to 1 fuse? Or would it be smarter to run each set to its individual 15a dc breaker? I was going to use some fuses, but now Im thinking of running each series setup into a dc breaker, Im just not sure where to get a box for dc. So Im on the look out too. Thank you for the insight.

4 of your panels in series will blow up your charge controller. The Voc of the panel is 44V x 4 in series is 176V, not 96V. The charge controller can handle up to 150V. CALL A PROFESSIONAL. Blowing up the equipment and possibly the house is not in the interest of your grandfather.

1. Great, thanks, I gave our panel supplier a ring and he said they were 24v nominal panels, so I could run 3 in series and not 4. So Ill simply change up what wires Ive got run and voila.

2. Do you think 3x280w panels in series would be happy with 3 12 gauge wires to the pos and 3 12 gauge wires to the neg, then run 70 feet? That would be 72v all the way underground to the breakers and controller. Maybe I should use 4 or 5 12 gauge for each pos and neg. YES, I know its a wild setup, but there are several people doing things without others input which is why Im here asking to verify if theyve got things correct. So please dont shoot me.

[Amy@altE]

Thanks for the thoughtful ideas, specially the ones above lol, and yes things are coming along great.

So heres my system to update you: 24x280w panels, 4 tied in series to provide 96 volts. Since I have 2 poles, Ill have 12 panels on one pole and 12 on another. We ended up running 8 12guage automotive wire for each 4 panel setup, 4 pos and 4 neg.

Anyway, I've bought 2 80/80 outback controllers and now am looking for you thoughts on 2 things:

(:

4 of your panels in series will blow up your charge controller. The Voc of the panel is 44V x 4 in series is 176V, not 96V. The charge controller can handle up to 150V. CALL A PROFESSIONAL. Blowing up the equipment and possibly the house is not in the interest of your grandfather.

[Amy@altE]

What in the world! You want to close a thread because someones asking questions on a forum????

And please tell me whats so dangerous about my setup? Nothing! Im at a loss for words. Troll? Am I made of time?

I think its pretty plain to see that Im looking for suggestions to a project Im working on bud. I've listened to much of what you guys have mentioned, but some of the things are just not in the interest of my grandfather, however other things are, like the thoughts above.

You have not listened to our advice. We are trying to keep you from harming your grandfather. You cannot use AC equipment for DC. DC is harder to break than AC because it never crosses 0V like AC does, and unless it is designed to do it, it will not properly protect the line and is very dangerous. The fact that you are insisting there is nothing dangerous about your system proves that you are not listening to us. You just provided a link to a professional solar company. Why will you not call them? It's free to talk! It's what they (we) do. And please listen to what you are told. DC equipment costs more than AC for a reason, so stop trying to take the cheap, unsafe way out.

[J.P.M.]

Third time and out: Some folks you just can't reach.
Or, maybe the poster is just screwing with our collective head and we've been had. In either case, maybe it's time to cut losses and move on.

[SunEagle]

What in the world! You want to close a thread because someones asking questions on a forum????

And please tell me whats so dangerous about my setup? Nothing! Im at a loss for words. Troll? Am I made of time?

I think its pretty plain to see that Im looking for suggestions to a project Im working on bud. I've listened to much of what you guys have mentioned, but some of the things are just not in the interest of my grandfather, however other things are, like the thoughts above.

Asking questions is perfectly fine in a fourm, athough while you have asked questions, you (or your grandfather) have ignored a lot of our directions which were given to help you build a "safe" system.

Based on your statements concerning wiring and switches I feel you do not know what you are doing and if you continue to do as you want I am afraid you or others may get hurt. Please stop what you are doing now and get help from a qualified electrician.

[Living Large]

What in the world! You want to close a thread because someones asking questions on a forum????

And please tell me whats so dangerous about my setup? Nothing! Im at a loss for words. Troll? Am I made of time?

I think its pretty plain to see that Im looking for suggestions to a project Im working on bud. I've listened to much of what you guys have mentioned, but some of the things are just not in the interest of my grandfather, however other things are, like the thoughts above.

What they are telling you is that you are not following their advice. They told you to stop buying stuff and get the advice of a professional. You are forging ahead, and you desperately need a professional - here is exhibit A:

"I thought of using the air conditioning ac disconnect because its easy to get at home depot, is very cheap and will do as good of job as an expensive throw switch. Using it for dc instead of ac is the only thing I dont know, but not too worried as long as it conducts lol."

You say the AC disconnect will do the same job as an expensive throw switch, yet you say you don't know what difference it makes to use an AC disconnect versus a DC one. And you throw in "lol" almost like it is a joke and doesn't matter even if it isn't appropriate.

I think people are afraid you're going to hurt yourself, someone else, or burn your house down. There are some forums, like HVACTalk, where professionals will not even answer DIY questions. The beauty of this forum is you have people in the industry and experienced DIYers who know how to do the job right. They aren't going to get involved in something that appears to be a Rube Goldberg. Just my .02 as an observer.

[hollywoodtoday]

What!?

What in the world! You want to close a thread because someones asking questions on a forum????

And please tell me whats so dangerous about my setup? Nothing! Im at a loss for words. Troll? Am I made of time?

I think its pretty plain to see that Im looking for suggestions to a project Im working on bud. I've listened to much of what you guys have mentioned, but some of the things are just not in the interest of my grandfather, however other things are, like the thoughts above.

[SunEagle]

Need to close this thread.

I will ask the Admins to please close this thread. What the OP is doing is dangerous and will end up getting him or someone else hurt.

[sensij]

I think you must be a troll... willfully ignoring the sound and thoughtful advice you've gotten and posting just to see what responses you can get. No troll food from me.

[hollywoodtoday]

I would ask why you are considering an AC disconnect for a DC application.

If you do use this item, you should be able to find a way to attach four 12AWG wires, since it handles wire up to 3AWG. The only question is how you choose to terminate them.

I thought of using the air conditioning ac disconnect because its easy to get at home depot, is very cheap and will do as good of job as an expensive throw switch. Using it for dc instead of ac is the only thing I dont know, but not too worried as long as it conducts lol.

And yes, Id have to grab 4 copper clamps to get them into the lugs. Of course, even then, im gonna have a hard time getting 24 wires into that little 9x5 disconnect lol, depends on how cheap I am I suppose.

Anybody have any thoughts on my questions of #2 and #3 above?

[Living Large]

Thanks for the thoughtful ideas, specially the ones above lol, and yes things are coming along great.

So heres my system to update you: 24x280w panels, 4 tied in series to provide 96 volts. Since I have 2 poles, Ill have 12 panels on one pole and 12 on another. We ended up running 8 12guage automotive wire for each 4 panel setup, 4 pos and 4 neg.

Anyway, I've bought 2 80/80 outback controllers and now am looking for you thoughts on 2 things:

1. Before I bring the solar lines into the controller I was thinking of running them first through 2 of these 60a ac disconnects for the dc power coming in which is about 25ADC/96v. Do you think its too tiny to get 24 wire into lol? Do you have another cheap suggestion?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-60-Amp-240-Volt-240-Watt-Fused-Metallic-AC-Disconnect-TF60RCP/100134720

2. Id like to also grab a transfer switch that would transfer power either from edison or the inverter, to the main panel. Something like this--> http://prntscr.com/5ximiq . So Ive been looking and found this 60a transfer switch --> http://www.altestore.com/store/Enclo...FYZbfgodx18A9g Do you think it would work for this situation since I dont need anymore than 60a anyway.

3. Also, if you had a suggestion on a nicely priced automatic transfer switch around 60a, that would be amazing. At night, I have a feeling our 8 batteries arent enough and we'll lose pressure for the sprinklers and it would be nice if it just auto switched over to edison when there wasnt enough juice. suggestions on a 60a auto transfer switch?

You guys have been very helpful, thank you (:

I would ask why you are considering an AC disconnect for a DC application.

If you do use this item, you should be able to find a way to attach four 12AWG wires, since it handles wire up to 3AWG. The only question is how you choose to terminate them.

[hollywoodtoday]

Hey guys, back again with a couple questions (:

Thanks for the thoughtful ideas, specially the ones above lol, and yes things are coming along great.

So heres my system to update you: 24x280w panels, 4 tied in series to provide 96 volts. Since I have 2 poles, Ill have 12 panels on one pole and 12 on another. We ended up running 8 12guage automotive wire for each 4 panel setup, 4 pos and 4 neg.

Anyway, I've bought 2 80/80 outback controllers and now am looking for you thoughts on 2 things:

1. Before I bring the solar lines into the controller I was thinking of running them first through 2 of these 60a ac disconnects for the dc power coming in which is about 25ADC/96v. Do you think its too tiny to get 24 wire into lol? Do you have another cheap suggestion?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-60-Amp-240-Volt-240-Watt-Fused-Metallic-AC-Disconnect-TF60RCP/100134720

2. Id like to also grab a transfer switch that would transfer power either from edison or the inverter, to the main panel. Something like this--> http://prntscr.com/5ximiq . So Ive been looking and found this 60a transfer switch --> http://www.altestore.com/store/Enclo...FYZbfgodx18A9g Do you think it would work for this situation since I dont need anymore than 60a anyway.

3. Also, if you had a suggestion on a nicely priced automatic transfer switch around 60a, that would be amazing. At night, I have a feeling our 8 batteries arent enough and we'll lose pressure for the sprinklers and it would be nice if it just auto switched over to edison when there wasnt enough juice. suggestions on a 60a auto transfer switch?

You guys have been very helpful, thank you (:

[thastinger]

been here a while now, don't recall seeing anything like this yet. You're afraid to even post in here for fear of a wrongful death action and it would probably be wise not to post, since the OP obviously has no intention of following any of the advice given.