runnig a solar system w/o notifying the utility

[rcrummett]

I just installed a 20 panel system, got my final from the county and sent off my paperwork to PGE. On the application to PGE for net metering it states do not operate your system prior to PGE completing the interconnect agreement. I have been running it non stop and enjoying the heck out of running it and seeing how it performs each day and what my record production is. Should I be concerned? I assume they wont pay me for the watts I am dumping to the grid.

I would bet I am not the only outlaw power producer who wants to play with his new toy.

Anyone out there have experience with this, and how long did it take for PGE to complete the interconnect agreement?

[Willy T]

It depends, If you have a smart meter your going to pay double for what you use and what you produce. A smart meter has to be programmed to allow net metering, otherwise it charges both as power used from the grid. I know, I ended up paying all I produced during the wait because my Installer said I could turn it on. Some old analog meters will run backwards and some not.

[russ]

In my opinion it is dumb to do so - if you have problems of any kind, including getting double billed, you can't say anything.

[rcrummett]

Ouch I don't want to pay twice, I do have a smart meter so just went out and shut the system down.

Like a kid waiting for Christmas, its hard to wait...

[rcrummett]

Anybody have experience with PGE in N. California? What is a typical wait time?

On another note the County building inspector wants to see it run to pass it, so it has to be run before PGE does the interconnect as PGE wants a complete final sign off from the county inspector.

[Bikerscum]

It depends, If you have a smart meter your going to pay double for what you use and what you produce. A smart meter has to be programmed to allow net metering, otherwise it charges both as power used from the grid. I know, I ended up paying all I produced during the wait because my Installer said I could turn it on. Some old analog meters will run backwards and some not.

I have PG&E and a smart meter, I'm also waiting for my approval letter.


My meter shows whether I'm producing or receiving, and the meter runs backwards. It shows either <---- or ---->. My daily energy usage at PG&E's website shows me using nothing during the day & using their juice at night.

How would I get billed twice for that when my meter shows less this week than last week?

[Willy T]

I have PG&E and a smart meter, I'm also waiting for my approval letter.


My meter shows whether I'm producing or receiving, and the meter runs backwards. It shows either <---- or ---->. My daily energy usage at PG&E's website shows me using nothing during the day & using their juice at night.

How would I get billed twice for that when my meter shows less this week than last week?

Then your meter is already programmed to accept bi-directional current, Mine wasn't, if your is, good for you, enjoy. Do you think their computer program can see what the meter reports ?? If it's less than the week before, you can bet they know it.

Most would tell you once you sign the agreement, They Change the Meter !!

[sdold]

It only took me a few days with PG&E Less than a week as I remember.

[Sunking]

My meter shows whether I'm producing or receiving, and the meter runs backwards. It shows either <---- or ---->. My daily energy usage at PG&E's website shows me using nothing during the day & using their juice at night.

All that really means is your meter has already been programmed to be bidirectional, which is OK. But you are still possible getting screwed somewhat if when you say "no daily use", where is the daily credit for what you sent to them to use at night? My guess is you are giving it away and not being credited. Since you have no contract, they can see and log what you are sending them, but they are not obligated to pay you anything without a contract.

[Bikerscum]

All that really means is your meter has already been programmed to be bidirectional, which is OK. But you are still possible getting screwed somewhat if when you say "no daily use", where is the daily credit for what you sent to them to use at night? My guess is you are giving it away and not being credited. Since you have no contract, they can see and log what you are sending them, but they are not obligated to pay you anything without a contract.

Understood, and as I said the agreement is pending. I just wanted to point out you're not automatically getting double billed if you haven't gotten the letter yet. The OP could just go look at his meter.

[Sunking]

Understood, and as I said the agreement is pending. I just wanted to point out you're not automatically getting double billed if you haven't gotten the letter yet.

You are correct, but I am just pointing out you might be getting somewhat screwed by not receiving credit for excess generation. Beats getting billed.

[Willy T]

You are correct, but I am just pointing out you might be getting somewhat screwed by not receiving credit for excess generation. Beats getting billed.

I guess one thing that we could all agree on is once your accepted as a net meter customer the billing format changes as they add the generated KW's and credits and debits to the bill. Mine took a couple months to finally catch up so the bill was correct.

[rcrummett]

Thanks for the input, I can wait a week appreciate the replies here.

I did restart the system and verified my smart meter as the other individual posting here does show watts going out and getting credit ( deducting usage). I understand there will be no $ prior to a finalized agreement from the utility. I am hopeful and believe running the system early will allow me to use my own self generated green power and not have to pay the utility to pull in their grey power. I don't want to have to pay twice, so plan to leave the system off and patiently wait for the agreement to arrive.

Thanks again for the replies

[peakbagger]

Heck when I started up my systems, the standard line from the utility was notify them when its ready and they will schedule a tech to come. Each time I got a phone call that I could "test" the system while waiting for the tech but once I was done testing, I needed to shut it down. A tech never showed up and a few days later I got a signed form in the mail. I had a dumb meter initially that would run backwards and at some point they installed a digital meter that also runs backwards.

a few weeks or months after all three installs a tech would come and look carefully at the system. I asked them what they were doing and they told me that the utilities antifraud software had detected an irregularity in my usage. I guess adding a solar system is somewhat similar to someone reversing the meter to reduce their bill.

[bcroe]

I just installed a 20 panel system, got my final from the county
and sent off my paperwork to PGE. On the application to PGE for net metering it
states do not operate your system prior to PGE completing the interconnect agreement.
I have been running it non stop and enjoying the heck out of running it and seeing how
it performs each day and what my record production is. Should I be concerned? I
assume they wont pay me for the watts I am dumping to the grid.

I would bet I am not the only outlaw power producer who wants to play with his new toy.

Anyone out there have experience with this, and how long did it take for PGE to
complete the interconnect agreement?

My electric bill went way up when a "quick fix" electric water heater
went in. And it dropped 50% when it was eventually replaced with
propane. Then I knocked off another big hunk of the remainder by
tracking down 300W (thats 2600 KWH a year) of phantom loads
and eliminating 80% of it. None of this seemed to bother the POwer
Company at all.

Test running the new PV system at 15 KW made the meter spin
backwards like it was going to launch. But the dials still moved
FORWARD, so I could ill afford to do this. It took 6 weeks to get my
net meter installed, which was 3 months from when the project was
given the go ahead and my deposit paid. Meantime I did try to run a
limited number of panels to nearly offset the AC when running. Not
a very productive plan, if the motor cycled off, it was costing me.
Bruce Roe