Monitoring Solar Stuff

[greenHouse]

what's the issue with the PLC?

Inverter noise. It trashes the PLC signal and prevents the transmitter in the electric panel from being found by the gateway.

A =lot= of solar installers have reported this problem. Enough that many won't install the TED 5000. My labor to configure one, after an installer has done the panel work, starts at 2 hours. And that's about the right amount, on average.

[Vern2]

greenhouse,
You are very knowledgeable And I only try to figure out things with common sense and a little reading. I have High school only, but have been very successful doing things my way. When I was working I was paid very well, retired now. I'm keeping busy working on a solar patent. Machine shop stuff.

I don't know what a PLC is, but I have an idea. I know others that have Ted 5000 systems on their solar, that work very well. I also know their are home devices that use the PLC type signal to transmit there data and yes there seems to be data being stepped on by one another device. I've not heard of anyone giving up and not get their TED 5000 to work. TED's service dept. is always person to person, willing and able to help. Know I don't use Google PowerMeter(tm), or know anyone that does. It's only something that can be added to TED, if you want to mess with it.

You seem to be omitting that your system has to be wired. Your monitoring system seems also to need 10BaseT min. Lan, cat5. , or max. out Wi-Fi -802.11g wireless. Although you system needs moving parts like a hard disk, which have there own problems. Ted keeps data for 10 years, not second data like yours. Your system seem to be very hi-tech for a distributed network of individual solar power grid tie systems or a meg watt customer.

The inverter control you mention for solar, seems only to limit inverter output, what home owner wants that. Also your comparison to TED on your Site (greenhousepc.com) is a little miss leading. Take this...

Both the Envi and TED 5000 power monitors require third-party software.

Not True. I have no third party software, unless your saying I have cable TV with internet access. Or is it my Lynsys wireless router for my home pc internet access. I did a thing called port transfer in the lynsys router to gain access to my home network. I see your system needs is running behind a server, running a web page or your buying a static IP address for your monitoring device. Port Forwarding allows incoming access to TED from anywhere in the world. Only problem with cell phones, Ted does not have little tinny web pages in there plug-into-wall-server device to be viewed easly by a cell phone.


Your monitoring system looks very cool! This is OP... You should create a You Tube video of your monitoring system. I have found and bought things by finding the video of products with only search words. I never found a mention of your products. That was in 2009 when I was doing a search for one.

Please don't chew me up to bad. Please let me and my hot dog live another day.

Edit: You seem to be a very nice person.

Mike where are you?

Your tender loin tips look real good your barbecuing Hmmm good!

[greenHouse]

greenhouse,
You are very knowledgeable And I only try to figure out things with common sense and a little reading. I have High school only, but have been very successful doing things my way. When I was working I was paid very well, retired now. I'm keeping busy working on a solar patent. Machine shop stuff.

I have 15 US patents and dozens more waiting to be issued. We should talk.

I don't know what a PLC is, but I have an idea. I know others that have Ted 5000 systems on their solar, that work very well.

I don't know how many people with TED 5000's you've spoken to. In the professional world the opinion is, for the most part, "Not ready for prime time".

You seem to be omitting that your system has to be wired. Your monitoring system seems also to need 10BaseT min. Lan, cat5. , or max. out Wi-Fi -802.11g wireless. Although you system needs moving parts like a hard disk, which have there own problems. Ted keeps data for 10 years, not second data like yours. Your system seem to be very hi-tech for a distributed network of individual solar power grid tie systems or a meg watt customer.

There are no moving parts at all in the greenMonitor Lite. For a reasonable sized system, the storage is sufficient for 139 years. For larger systems, less time. For example, my system -- which is very complex because I use it for software development -- has storage space for 25 years, but only because it was a cheap prototype. If it wasn't a cheap prototype, the storage would last 82 years. The extra storage is so that a future release of the software can also store performance reports. A feature the TED and Envi also lack.

It's also not at all high tech -- you plug it in, it automatically configures itself, and then immediately starts logging. You look at the data with a web browser.

What it =is= is feature-rich.

The inverter control you mention for solar, seems only to limit inverter output, what home owner wants that. Also your comparison to TED on your Site (greenhousepc.com) is a little miss leading. Take this...

I'm not sure what you mean by "only to limit inverter output", since it has far more capabilities than that.

Both the Envi and TED 5000 power monitors require third-party software.

Well, they do. Or else you go through all the steps you've gone through, which most home owners don't know how to do. In the case of the greenMonitor Lite, you plug the devices into the unit, plug the network into the unit, plug the power into the device, and then you use a web browser to look at the logged data. If you want remote monitoring, which is 100% optional, you configure that as well.

I see your system needs is running behind a server, running a web page or your buying a static IP address for your monitoring device.

Nope. The web server is built into the device, the same as your router has a built-in web server.

The greenMonitor Lite actually has three different web servers -- one that provides the real-time system performance. A second that would allow you to put your own pages on the device (try that with a TED or Envi), using the graphics that are produced by the first web server. A third that allows other software to connect to the real time and historical data stream.

The commercial-grade web servers I run are for 24/7 remote monitoring, which is available as a service. Neither the TED nor Envi offer that service, and most monitoring services are tied to equipment vendors -- we're independent and will always be independent.

Your monitoring system looks very cool! This is OP... You should create a You Tube video of your monitoring system. I have found and bought things by finding the video of products with only search words. I never found a mention of your products. That was in 2009 when I was doing a search for one.

Most people use Google for such things -- YouTube is for videos and a lot of products don't have videos.

Thanks for the compliment. I try to be nice, but I can get a bit dry at times.

[Vern2]

greenhouse,
Thanks for letting me live another day. You are a good person.

I'm working on a solar panel lift. My hope was to have a single lift control a 5 panel group for $50 unit cost. But right now I'm only slowly raising the lifting weight capabilities. The lift works fine, but creates too much drag from linkage for my old 18v battery operated drill. Maybe I need to spend a little more $ and get a bigger 24v drill. It's 3 1/2" tall and will slide under most panel installs. It lifts a panel group from 4 to 51 degrees on a flat surface.

Panels on a roof, mounted system need space from the shadows created. That space is used to access each panel group for adjusting 4 times a year.

I'm still refining prototypes and it keeps lifting more with each mod.

Sorry no attachments.

Edit: Mike said, " Your on your own, She's going to kill you."

Thanks Mike, how's the hot dogs going?

Picture of my daughter, before boys. Her horse Vision and her grow up together from age 10 for Ashley, Vision was 4. With college and married last Sept 2010 at 29. USMC 4 years - E7. You must of had a great Dad.

[greenHouse]

greenhouse,
Thanks for letting me live another day. You are a good person.

"I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way!"

I'm working on a solar panel lift. My hope was to have a single lift control a 5 panel group for $50 unit cost. But right now I'm only slowly raising the lifting weight capabilities. The lift works fine, but creates too much drag from linkage for my old 18v battery operated drill. Maybe I need to spend a little more $ and get a bigger 24v drill. It's 3 1/2" tall and will slide under most panel installs. It lifts a panel group from 4 to 51 degrees on a flat surface.

You're not going to get a patent issued. That's the bad news. The good news is that any patents on that type technology would have expired, so you can make them yourself and sell them to your heart's content.

There are two particular tests for patentability, neither of which that idea passes. First, tilting arrays isn't novel -- it's been done before -- and it also isn't non-obvious, because it's been done alot before. And the non-obviousness becomes one of those things where there is so much "prior art" (patent lingo for "other people have done the same kinds of things) that you really aren't going to get a patent.

Edit: Mike said, " Your on your own, She's going to kill you."

I'm not like that. I'm very much a "go along to get along" kind of person, for the most part. I only get nasty when people treat me nasty, but things often wind up working out in the end.

[Vern2]

Julie,

Thanks for the info.

I'm wondering why you can't buy a lift anywhere like mine, at any cost? Sure you can buy actuated pedestal type that follow the sun (Watsun, two axes) for about $7,000. That's really cost affective. Everything else is a pain in the but, to operate manually, one axes. There are single remote actuated panel lifts for RV's, one axes, for an arm and a leg and a bunch of people have built things from bike wheels and wood. Nothing I can see as being substantial. There's a circular rotating one that's like a kids ride that follows the sun, one axes. It takes to much roof area. And here I am, something I'm trying to build for $50 each. Easy to operate and will control groups of panels, one axes. I'm sure someone can take the idea, find a fab shop that will build 1000's at a time, very low production costs. Basically I'm building them for myself, so I'll just keep on task. Got no money invested, using my own shop. I'm a little over kill when it comes to tools, so I do have more then most garage shops (milling, lathe work, aluminum welding, plasma cutting).

[greenHouse]

It's likely that the cost is prohibitive relative to the functionality.

Remember -- you are building a single axis tracker that is only operated through one full cycle each year and 20 or 30 full cycles over the life of the product.

Put in those terms, how much is the product worth?

[Vern2]

With a little work from gathering info from more then several tilt Sunpower systems, just with what I've built so far, the data shows close to 10% gain over there tilt system. That's with only changing tilt 4 times this year. If the tilt is easy to change and your cleaning off your panels, why not take an exture 15 minutes and change the tilt. For me that means 2,000 kw hours gain for the year. I've only had my solar up for 10 1/2 months and have close to 17,000 kw hours so far. So I guess I've got to turn that into money over, so many years. I think my lifts would pay the $50 for the lifts easy. The manual lifts I have cost $44 each now and I had to buy 3 for each group of 5. One odd point, the lifts you can buy now only lower your panels to 21%, a little design problem. They use legs and to get the panels to winter tile, you have to have long legs. Now for the summer tilt the long legs, even collapsed have to penetrate your roof to get lower then 21%. Also these shorter tilt legs will not lift panels higher then 34% for winter. There's a big problem with manual adjustable legs. Basically they don't work.

[greenHouse]

Any solution to "lifting" something is always about the geometry of the framing members. I was working on a solution -- more about architecture than producing more power -- and all my work pointed to that one simple truth.

But the value of the solution is not the value of the increase in efficiency, it's the cost of the labor to not do the solution your way. And it's not the cost, for a large plant, of the labor, it's the incremental cost of the labor above other maintenance costs.

[Vern2]

Julie,
Your high tech. I drill a few holes to adjust angles and pivot points to find the best lift approach and escape angles. Actually that part is solved. I'm working on very smooth techniques at those points, cutting drag coefficient under heavy loads. If I can find something to turn it at an unlimited torque I have 9,000 lbs of static load(force) to work with. I have tricks in my solution (geometry). It's not just framing members, thats what makes it unique.

This is happening now, today. It's the machinist that came up with the dual crank shaft for the racing engine motor bike, for balance and centrifugal force in turns. No one can go through the turns as fast as he can with his engine. All the racing bike manufactures want his idea, but he's working on it himself. He's got the engine built, but not a lot of money for final engineering. The engine blows up from time to time, his money is running out.

[PVWizard]

Solar monitoring

There is a new product on the market that monitors solar hot water and PV.

You can see a live demo at

http://www.greenwichavenuecarwash.com/solar_advantage.html

The product is called Apollo from SunReports (well under $1000).

[Sunking]

There is a new product on the market that monitors solar hot water and PV.

You can see a live demo at

http://www.greenwichavenuecarwash.com/solar_advantage.html

The product is called Apollo from SunReports (well under $1000).

SPAMMER, mods nuke him to digital he!!

[greenHouse]

Anything near $1,000 to monitor solar thermal and PV is a rip-off.

Leave the post up and let people reply with "That's a rip-off!"

[russ]

Agreed - the site is not selling the package - just showing what they have.

A bit steep for a toy!

[greenHouse]

Agreed - the site is not selling the package - just showing what they have.

A bit steep for a toy!

The other possibility is that it's a "commercial" package and priced accordingly. I have fairly basic monitoring packages that start around $359. I'm working on a product that will likely list at $2,499. I'm also working on commercial power plant products that will start around $5,000 and only go up from there.

Some vendors think there is a market for a circa $1,000 "residential" monitoring product, and they even manage to sell a few. On the flip side, there are others who sell useless products, like using an "Envi" for inverter monitoring, that are driving the price for monitoring gear as low as possible, and they sell a few as well.