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The famous Utility Required Outside-Mounted Disconnect

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  • The famous Utility Required Outside-Mounted Disconnect

    Utilities often require us to install an open blade switch, located "outside" or on the "exterior". I know that if I just straight-up ask the utility for their judgement call on this, they are going to require the most expensive solution they can. As such, I'd like to get some other opinions on this, from people with experience on the solar side. I'll keep the specifics secret.

    What counts as the definition of "outside" or "exterior"?
    1. Must a bird's eye be able to see it?
    2. Must it be visible when looking at the outside of the building?
    3. If I can walk to it from ground level, and not pass through any doors, is that good enough?
    4. What about it it is behind locked gates that are still outside, that the utility has a key?

    My situation is an open ground-level parking garage. All electrical infrastructure is in a fenced region in the middle of it, including solar eqpt and the utility meters. Utility personnel have keys to access this region.

    I don't want to run wire 150 ft out of my way, to get to the literal outside wall. I'd like to see if inside the fenced region (preferred), or on the immediate outside of the fenced region, is good enough. Even if that fenced region is buried in the middle of the open basement.

  • #2
    Comes down to so a Fireman can walk up to the Utility Meter and Disconnect the PV at the same time and place to completely de-energize the facility to put the fire out. . Has nothing to do with Utility company requirements. It is an Electrical Code requirement.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Comes down to so a Fireman can walk up to the Utility Meter and Disconnect the PV at the same time and place to completely de-energize the facility to put the fire out. . Has nothing to do with Utility company requirements. It is an Electrical Code requirement.
      Thank you Sunking.
      I'm not really talking about 690.12, which doesn't really tell you where the switch has to be. In my judgement call, it'd best be readily accessible somewhere nearby where they would ordinarily cut the service power. A fireman is a qualified personnel, and equipment behind locked gates is still considered readily accessible to qualified personnel. (Even though I'd call a key a tool).

      I'm talking about utility requirements that are beyond the NEC requirements.

      External Disconnect Switch: For Listed inverters, the Company may require an
      external disconnect switch (or comparable device by mutual agreement of the
      Parties) at the PCC with the Company or at another mutually agreeable point that
      is accessible to Company personnel at all times and that can be opened for
      isolation if the switch is required. The switch shall be gang operated, have a
      visible break when open, be rated to interrupt the maximum generator output and
      be capable of being locked open, tagged and grounded on the Company side by
      Company personnel. The visible break requirement can be met by opening the
      enclosure to observe the contact separation. The Company shall have the right to
      open this disconnect switch in accordance with this Interconnection Tariff.

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      • #4
        My utility now waives the need for a switch under 10 KW. My original system needed one and I also needed a revenue grade meter for SRECs purposes so the two boxes mounted on the wall near my utility meter.

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        • #5
          Here in Phoenix, with APS, I believe they require a disconnect immediately next to the main service panel so that the utility company can shut off the power if they are doing work to the street electrical box so it must be accessible from the street and cannot be behind any fences or gates.

          Our main service panels are always on the outside of the garage accessible from anyone on the street (at least on houses built in the past 20 or so years)

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          • #6
            My PoCo permitted me to have the switch at the ground array itself with a sign posted at the meter specifying the switch location.

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            • #7
              I have the appropriate signage on my house panel and (2) 20 amp breakers clearly labeled and located inside for the main disconnect. My panels are on my rooftop and I also have (2) 2 pole snap switches located up there to isolate either string ( 17 panels each ) if I need to do any maintenance. I don't think they were required by code but being a retired electrician I tend to make things more difficult than they need to be. Good luck.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HX_Guy View Post
                Here in Phoenix, with APS, I believe they require a disconnect immediately next to the main service panel so that the utility company can shut off the power if they are doing work to the street electrical box so it must be accessible from the street and cannot be behind any fences or gates.

                Our main service panels are always on the outside of the garage accessible from anyone on the street (at least on houses built in the past 20 or so years)

                I'm looking to put in a solar system here with APS. Question about the disconnect. My panel is on the back of my house, inside the block fence wall. Is the disconnect really supposed to be on the front yard side of the block wall, and not in closer proximity to the main panel?

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                • solarix
                  solarix commented
                  Editing a comment
                  APS's rule is that the disconnect is to be located in the same vicinity as the service and you are to provide 24/7 access to it. Of course, they were supposed to have this on your service in general, but they never enforced it. Now that you want solar - they will enforce it. We have had instances where we have had to move the entire service to an accessible location or have had to change fences to permit access without being attacked by dogs etc. However we have also had cases where the homeowner has added a fence after the paperwork was submitted and the utility let it slide...

                  They will allow you to locate a disconnect somewhere else than at the service if you put a permanent plague on both locations showing a map of where to find your electrical equipment. Supposedly, during an outage, troublemen will have a list of all the solar people in the area and are to go around shutting off all the solar disconnects before working on the lines. I've never heard of that actually happening yet... Its ridiculous - as grid-tied solar systems are inherently unable to backfeed the grid when it is down anyway (don't we love OSHA rules).

                  Get it in writing from APS before you install though. I've had cases of doing it one way, had the APS inspector approve it, then have the APS meter guy come and refuse to set the meter (they require a dedicated solar meter in addition to the disconnect), waited several weeks for an interdepartmental fight to settle, gone out and relocated the meter at our expense, then had a different meter guy come out and say "oh - I would have accepted it in the original location". grrrrrrr

              • #9
                Originally posted by solarix View Post
                We have had instances where we have had to move the entire service to an accessible location
                Meaning what? The original panel becomes a subpanel and a new main breaker box and meter is installed in an accessible location? Do they move the underground feed?
                Last edited by sunnyguy; 09-16-2016, 02:11 AM.

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                • solarix
                  solarix commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's right. and customer has to pay for all. Not a very solar friendly utility despite what their PR says.
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