Installation on Spanish Tile (S-tile) Roof

[ma6n6s6on]

My home is only 2 years old and I want to make sure I make the right choice with the installation method. I have concrete Spanish tile (s-shaped) roof. The thought of having my roof taken apart to do a solar panel install turns my stomach. Some companies promise me that they can do the install without removing any tiles and others say I would have to remove all the tiles under the panels and add protective layers. I see that there are special installation products for my type of roof, but I am not sure if they allow the optimal airflow and weather protection. If they do why would any installer want to remove the tiles under the panels at all. I keep reading that there is no good way to install "over" the tile and that it is obviously a more expensive installation. Not what i like to hear. Honestly, to me it seems like the roof would be in better shape if the tiles were left on.

Any suggestions or advice from recent installs or people in the same boat as me?

[Dortloff]

I have found several solutions to mounting on S tile roofs, but there are different kinds of Spanish S-tiles. Unirac makes an S-Hook mount that sits in the valley of the tile and requires a flashing under the hook. Quick mount PV also makes a similar product.


Unirac S-Hook: http://unirac.com/sites/default/files/th-install.pdf
Quick Mount PV: http://www.quickmountpv.com/download...Curved-web.pdf

I have not used this one but I have recently run into an inspector who did not like the techniques above and I believe he would like this more,

http://www.quickmountpv.com/downloads/datasheet/QMPV-datasheet-QMUTM-UniversalTile-web.pdf

[PenguinSolar]

My home is only 2 years old and I want to make sure I make the right choice with the installation method. I have concrete Spanish tile (s-shaped) roof. The thought of having my roof taken apart to do a solar panel install turns my stomach. Some companies promise me that they can do the install without removing any tiles and others say I would have to remove all the tiles under the panels and add protective layers. I see that there are special installation products for my type of roof, but I am not sure if they allow the optimal airflow and weather protection. If they do why would any installer want to remove the tiles under the panels at all. I keep reading that there is no good way to install "over" the tile and that it is obviously a more expensive installation. Not what i like to hear. Honestly, to me it seems like the roof would be in better shape if the tiles were left on.

Any suggestions or advice from recent installs or people in the same boat as me?

In the same boat, but my roof is only 3mo old also concrete Spanish tiles. I have ran into some installer which will remove all the tiles lay down a new roof, install the panels on top, and replace the tiles around the panels for a flush look.

I have a neighbor that did that, but he also had to install his panels in the front so it makes for a pretty smooth look as the panels are "embedded" into the roof. But since I have existing roof tiles up don't want to have someone rip them all up and lay them back down.

If my panels were very visible and wanted a clean look maybe otherwise I'm not going that route. Rather someone just take off the tiles that are needed to mount the brackets and leave the rest of the tiles alone. Think less trauma to my roof the better.

Also if you're concern about how much work / potential damage to your roof you'll want to go with the lowest number of panels with the highest efficiency at the sizing you need.

Here's some pics of the "flush" look:
Slide26.jpeg

[inetdog]

If my panels were very visible and wanted a clean look maybe otherwise I'm not going that route. Rather someone just take off the tiles that are needed to mount the brackets and leave the rest of the tiles alone. Think less trauma to my roof the better.

Some contractors do not feel comfortable removing just the tiles necessary to install the brackets, because of the risk of breaking other tiles while working. It makes it more expensive for them and increases the quality and specialized experience of the labor involved.
Even when using the brackets meant for interleaving between the layers of tiles, there are concerns about fit (with an example of a poor outcome in another thread in the forum) and water leakage.
Just as it is difficult to properly replace a single damaged shingle in the middle of a root, it is even trickier to do the same with Spanish tile.

[sdguy]

Do you need to double flash when installing on s-tile concrete roof?
Just talked to an installer that said they drill a 3/8" hole in the tile and flash the hole. (said it was superior to double flashing)

Doesn't sound as water tight as the full double flashing that others do.
All of the installers will warranty their work and water-proof roofs for 10 years.

Talked to a roofer who said he would pull back the tiles. Place new underlayment, place asphalt shingles, mount and flash the stancions, and then put back the tiles. (minus the stancion tile).

[russ]

The flush lok means no air circulation for cooling.

I would not want some fool drilling holes in my cement tiles!

[sdguy]

The flush lok means no air circulation for cooling.

I would not want some fool drilling holes in my cement tiles!

Drilling holes into tiles sounds a little sketchy. Doing more research.
Hope they are planning to flash the underlayment and just doing the holes in the tile for looks and not as their primary means of waterproofing.

[russ]

Panels are generally installed something like 150mm (6") above the roof to allow air to circulate and cool the panels.

The typical panel will lose in the range of 0.35% to 0.5% of rated capacity per degree C temperature rise over 25°C. If a roof tile temperature is 50° C then you would have lost substantial production.

[sdguy]

Drilling holes into tiles sounds a little sketchy. Doing more research.

Here is the quote from the sales rep:

Our system is minimally invasive and preserves the water tight structure of the roofing tiles themselves. When setting a stanchion we pull one tile off the roof and drill the stanchion directly into one of the beams. A single hole is drilled in the roof tile and it gets slid right back over the stanchion (a 7" lag bolt). The hole is coated with Geocel on both sides and then the top side is flashed with a 2" square flashing. This is system is superior to the double flashing system because you don't have to remove any extra tiles at all and there is literally only a 3/8 inch hole in the tile that needs to be guarded against leaks.

I am not totally sold on their mounting strategy. (a very reputable vendor )
I may need to talk to the actual installer to ensure that the sale rep got the words right.
I would be concerned about roof leaks if they are not properly double flashing the roof penetrations.

Any thoughts? This is for s-tile concrete installation.

nice article about flashing -- http://solarprofessional.com/article...ble_pagination

[Naptown]

Where the framing is in relation to the tiles is important.
If the rafter or framing is below the upper portion of the tiles ( the part that is raised from the roof deck ) then I see no problem with that mounting system

If in the lower part or concave portion of the tile then I have a real problem with that mounting

[sdguy]

I will ask the project manager more detailed question when I sit down with them.
They are booked a couple of weeks out right now. (busy)

Is it fairly common practice to drill holes in the S-tiles?
I have seen a couple of commercial mounting systems that promote that process.
They all place the hole mounts at the highest points (on the hill instead of in the valleys).

[oingo123]

Drilling holes in glazed tiles - square notch

I have glazed concrete S tiles, and I wasn't sure how it was done so I asked when they did mine.

The company I hired said it is a crap-shoot trying to drill them. They used an angle grinder to notch a 1.5" x 1.5" square, then they tap the center out with a hammer. They also went and matched my tile shape at a tile store, and bought about 20 spares - good thing, I bet they replaced about 15 tiles. Color wasn't exact but they put all the new ones on the back side of the house where no one can see.

Only a few of the broken tiles were from the hole / notching. Most of the breaks were from them walking around on the tiles. (I just had my roof re-done prior, so they knew that any broken tiles would be theirs.)

Don't know if it's a common method, but it worked ok. (There is metal flashing protruding through the square "hole" in the tile.)

Drilling holes into tiles sounds a little sketchy. Doing more research.
Hope they are planning to flash the underlayment and just doing the holes in the tile for looks and not as their primary means of waterproofing.

[russ]

I have glazed concrete S tiles, and I wasn't sure how it was done so I asked when they did mine.

Thanks for the input - good information!

Russ

[sdguy]

I have glazed concrete S tiles, and I wasn't sure how it was done so I asked when they did mine.
The company I hired said it is a crap-shoot trying to drill them.
Don't know if it's a common method, but it worked ok. (There is metal flashing protruding through the square "hole" in the tile.)

Thanks for the info.
Do you know what roof attachment system they used. (unirac or other?)

I talked to another installer yesterday -- one method they use is Unirac hanger bolts.
They remove a tile -- drive the hanger bolt into the rafter (assume the hole is caulked -- not sure about the flashing at the underlayment level).
They then drill the hole in the tile and pop the tile back over the bolt and place a little flashing over the hole.

In the Unirac product catalog they recommend the hanger bolts for metal or tile roofs.
Amazing to think that all of your racks and panels are sitting on a few hanger bolts.

I have looked at the mounting systems from QuickmountPV. I may ask the installer if they can use one of these mounts.
(http://www.quickmountpv.com/products...ook.html?cur=1) and
(http://www.quickmountpv.com/products...unt.html?cur=1)

QuickmountPV appears to really emphasize the flashing at the underlayment level to protect the roof from water intrusion.
One negative of the universal mount is that they use a huge flashing that sits on top of the tile. (However, it may be okay to place the flashing under the tile for aesthetics).
The tile hook looks good but it costs a little more.

note: I may be being overly paranoid about how the installer attaches the racks to the roof. One installer told me they would give me a lifetime warranty on their roof penetrations (no leaks within 6 inches of their roof penetrations). In the end, I just want the panels on the roof with power flowing and no water coming through the roof.