Help needed with Schneider/Xantrex Charge controller

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  • noshali
    Junior Member
    • May 2013
    • 27

    #1

    Help needed with Schneider/Xantrex Charge controller

    Hi,
    I have recently installed a solar system and found it to be straight forward. However, I am noticing some behavior that I do not understand. System details are:
    16 Canadian Solar 195 Watt panels..total is 3120 watts. 2 Panels are connected together.
    Schneider Charge controller XW-MPPT60-150. The maximum it can do is 60 amps at 48 volts = 2880 watts.
    APC UPS 5000va
    165ah each batteries 4 in 48 volt configuration
    I live in a Pakistan where we are facing severe energy crisis and have the power company supply power for 12 hours a day. The electricity is available for one hour on and one hour off.
    The total load during the day is about 7 amps times 230 volts = 1610 watts.

    I feel that I should have enough to drive the load and also charge the batteries. This is what is happening. I look at the output and it shows around 1500 watts and the batteries charging shows bulk. I know that the load is more than the output so the batteries are being drained and that is what is happening. I put more load and the output increases only for the increased load and not extra is produced to charge. The strange thing is that when the grid power comes back on the output from the panels drops and sometimes comes down to zero. I know that the batteries are not charged as the battery status on the UPS is showing only one light out of 5. I check the individual battery voltage with the power off - load off- and the charge controller disconnected and the voltage is barely 12 volts each. The only time the batteries are being charged is when the grid power comes on...the panels output pretty much goes down to zero during that time.
    Question is why is the charge controller only providing output based on load and not extra to charge the batteries? What could be the issue. I have checked the wiring and the voltage from each panel and it shows a total of 75 volts...37 volts is the rating of each panel.
    The ambient temp these days is 47 C (broke 59 year record) so I can assume the panels will never go to 2880 watts. Yesterday I put a load of about 3,000 watts and the charge controller peaked at 2100 watts. So it is capable of going to 2000 watts...I feel it should give me 1600 for load and 400 for battery charging but I am only getting the load (1200-1500) and nothing extra.
    Thanks in advance for your help.
    Ali
  • noshali
    Junior Member
    • May 2013
    • 27

    #2
    Ok so no one.
    Well let me pose it a different way. I had installed 1170 watts total solar panels and was getting 6.5 kwh per day. I figured that if I added more panels, I should get more...
    So I added another 1950 watts for a total of 3120 watts. Now what i notice on the charge controller is the peak is 2100 watts for the day meaning I am only getting about 70% of the total capacity and I get 10kwh per day. Shouldn't it go up to 3 times of what it was before like 18kwh. The batteries are also not charged so wonder what is wrong. Please help. I know that the charge controller can do 48volts times 60 amps...max 2880 watts.

    Comment

    • FloridaSun
      Solar Fanatic
      • Dec 2012
      • 634

      #3
      Originally posted by noshali
      Ok so no one.
      Well let me pose it a different way. I had installed 1170 watts total solar panels and was getting 6.5 kwh per day. I figured that if I added more panels, I should get more...
      So I added another 1950 watts for a total of 3120 watts. Now what i notice on the charge controller is the peak is 2100 watts for the day meaning I am only getting about 70% of the total capacity and I get 10kwh per day. Shouldn't it go up to 3 times of what it was before like 18kwh. The batteries are also not charged so wonder what is wrong. Please help. I know that the charge controller can do 48volts times 60 amps...max 2880 watts.
      How are you determining the batteries are not charged? You posted this in 'grid tie' section. It might help to explain what your system involves... grid tie with battery back up?

      Comment

      • Sunking
        Solar Fanatic
        • Feb 2010
        • 23301

        #4
        If you have a UPS it never runs off batteries unless the commercial power fails. When power fails the inverter switches on and th e4batteries come on line. When power restores, the UPS rectifiers do the charging of the batteries.
        MSEE, PE

        Comment

        • noshali
          Junior Member
          • May 2013
          • 27

          #5
          Originally posted by Sunking
          If you have a UPS it never runs off batteries unless the commercial power fails. When power fails the inverter switches on and th e4batteries come on line. When power restores, the UPS rectifiers do the charging of the batteries.
          Correct. Do note that my UPS does not have batteries and uses the battery bank that is connected to the charge controller.
          Remember that we get power for an hour and then the power is off for an hour. This also happens at night when there is no solar power.
          During the day when the power is off for an hour the UPS goes to the batteries and the load is around 1600 watts. I look at the charge controller and it is at 1500 watts. I have yet to see it go over the load so far. This is where I am concerned as the panel are capable of 2800 watts...Also when the power is restored the the UPS starts charging and the charge controller output pretty much dies out and sometime comes to ZERO.
          My understanding is that during sunny days the panels should make the max and supply it to the charge controller. If my load is 1600 then the rest should be used to charge the batteries when there is no power. When the power is restored the UPS takes over the load and the charge controller should then pass everything to the batteries.

          The reason why I say that the batteries are not charged is because there are 5 lights on the UPS and only one light is on. I look at the voltage on the charge controller when there is load and the volts are at 48.5 which would mean that the batteries are not fully charged.

          I have a question on the absorption stage. The charge controller has the default value of 180 minutes and the recharge volts at 50. Should I tweak that so that there is continuous charging to the batteries???
          Thanks

          Comment

          • Sunking
            Solar Fanatic
            • Feb 2010
            • 23301

            #6
            Sounds to me like you have an external battery. Makes no difference to the UPS, the UPS rectifiers will still do the charging when you have commercial power. Only time you would ever see the panels do anything is when commercial power is out. At that point the batteries are already fully charged and and the panels only supply power to the load and the batteries remain in FLOAT.

            So what you describe sounds perfectly normal. So in essence the only time your panels will do anything is when commercial power is out. If you want to see the panels max out you are going to have to increase the load to greater than the panels can produce when power is out. Otherwise if all you have is a 1000 watt load, the panels will only produce 1000 watts. Load it up to 5000 watt load and see what happens.
            MSEE, PE

            Comment

            • noshali
              Junior Member
              • May 2013
              • 27

              #7
              Originally posted by Sunking
              Sounds to me like you have an external battery. Makes no difference to the UPS, the UPS rectifiers will still do the charging when you have commercial power. Only time you would ever see the panels do anything is when commercial power is out. At that point the batteries are already fully charged and and the panels only supply power to the load and the batteries remain in FLOAT.

              So what you describe sounds perfectly normal. So in essence the only time your panels will do anything is when commercial power is out. If you want to see the panels max out you are going to have to increase the load to greater than the panels can produce when power is out. Otherwise if all you have is a 1000 watt load, the panels will only produce 1000 watts. Load it up to 5000 watt load and see what happens.
              Thanks for the response. But the batteries are not fully charged...Like I said the light on the UPS only shows one light and the volt meter shows 48.5 volts which means that the batteries are not fully charged.

              Should I cut off the commercial power during the day and see what happens. Do you think that with my 1600 watt load the load will be taken care of and the batteries will also be charged??? or will it only take care of the load only? Shouldn't it charge the batteries for the remaining wattage 2800-1600??
              regards,

              Comment

              • FloridaSun
                Solar Fanatic
                • Dec 2012
                • 634

                #8
                Originally posted by noshali
                Thanks for the response. But the batteries are not fully charged...Like I said the light on the UPS only shows one light and the volt meter shows 48.5 volts which means that the batteries are not fully charged.

                Should I cut off the commercial power during the day and see what happens. Do you think that with my 1600 watt load the load will be taken care of and the batteries will also be charged??? or will it only take care of the load only? Shouldn't it charge the batteries for the remaining wattage 2800-1600??
                regards,
                All the panels in the world won't help you if you have just one dead cell in one of your batteries. Are you using FLA or AGM batts?

                Comment

                • noshali
                  Junior Member
                  • May 2013
                  • 27

                  #9
                  Originally posted by FloridaSun
                  All the panels in the world won't help you if you have just one dead cell in one of your batteries. Are you using FLA or AGM batts?
                  Using Flooded. I am doing a test run today with no commercial power as the panels are almost double of my load so lets see how that goes. Will keep posted.

                  Comment

                  • noshali
                    Junior Member
                    • May 2013
                    • 27

                    #10
                    I tuned off the commercial power today at 9 am. The batteries were fully charged this morning. At 1:15 pm I took these photos. I see that the batteries are still fully charged and the entire house has been running on solar. Please advise if you feel that I should be getting more power out of the panel or any suggestions that you might have. Also, I am using the 2 stage charging. Do you suggest that I use 3 stage? Thanks.
                    IMG-20130529-WA0001.jpgIMG-20130529-WA0000.jpgIMG-20130529-WA0002.jpgIMG-20130529-WA0003.jpg

                    Comment

                    • Sunking
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Feb 2010
                      • 23301

                      #11
                      There is nothing wrong. You statewd the batteries were fully charged, turned off commercial power and the UPS ran off the panels. That is what is suppose to happen. The batteries will only be used if th eload exceeds what panels can produce.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment

                      • Mike90250
                        Moderator
                        • May 2009
                        • 16020

                        #12
                        I would configure the charger to 3-stage. That is easier on the batteries, keeping them at float voltage.

                        Is your charger configured to the proper batteries (flooded or AGM) that will be a factor for their long life.

                        When the grid is off, the solar may not have full output, depending on where the sun is in the sky. When the grid comes back on, both the grid and solar will be charging the batteries, and you may exceed their rating.
                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment

                        • noshali
                          Junior Member
                          • May 2013
                          • 27

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mike90250
                          I would configure the charger to 3-stage. That is easier on the batteries, keeping them at float voltage.

                          When the grid is off, the solar may not have full output, depending on where the sun is in the sky. When the grid comes back on, both the grid and solar will be charging the batteries, and you may exceed their rating.
                          Will put on three stage. As for the grid. Just finished making a relay and use the AUX output from charge controller to turn grid/generator on when the battery volts hit 48volts. This way the batteries will never discharge more than 50%.

                          Thanks for the feedback.
                          Regards,

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