Hello From San Diego!

[OCJ]

Thank you.

Tesla was at $2.55 per watt for me. So, not much change there. But, they didn't seem to have that financing any more. Now they only have 10 year financing at 6.9%.

According to the vendors, it's not too late to get into NEM 2.0. You just have to have the initial paperwork submitted before April 14th. I'm told that if I were starting the project in February, then it would probably be too late for NEM 2.0.

Yes, 10 year financing is no longer 2.99% like mine. I hear it was even lower in 2021. It's still the cleanest financing you can get outside a credit union. No dealer feels, no markups.

Technically yes it is not too late to get in under NEM 2.0, but you need to be at a certain stage in the process. You need to sign the contract, schedule and have the site survey, then the vendor needs to create the diagram, and send your contract, diagram, interconnect application, and oversizing document (if needed) in to secure your spot.

To get to *that* stage will take time depending on the load on the vendor and their skill/experience. NO vendor will guarantee you that they will meet that date. Each of those steps takes manpower and time which will be spread out depending on how many installs they are lining up.

You just have to have the initial paperwork submitted before April 14th.

Hopefully I broke down the "just have to have initial paperwork" piece of this enough for you to see it doesn't happen automatically and is not guaranteed to happen in time.

[wheaton4prez]

I have a Tesla system and am happy with it. I ordered it in January of this year. $2.50 per watt and 2.99% financing.

Because they are lower priced the demand is high, so I doubt you will get in under NEM 2.0 with Tesla. Unless you are aggressive about getting an install going it's doubtful you will get in under NEM 2.0 with any vendor.

Your best bet aside from aggressively scheduling an install at this point is to try to calculate or see if people are calculating optimal sizing with NEM 3.0, or whatever they are calling it. It's supposed to "encourage" batteries but batteries are still expensive.

Now after this NEM 2.0 rush things may settle down and demand may drop, and pricing may or may not drop with it. Certainly the economics and payback will have to be recalculated.

Thank you.

Tesla was at $2.55 per watt for me. So, not much change there. But, they didn't seem to have that financing any more. Now they only have 10 year financing at 6.9%.

According to the vendors, it's not too late to get into NEM 2.0. You just have to have the initial paperwork submitted before April 14th. I'm told that if I were starting the project in February, then it would probably be too late for NEM 2.0.

[OCJ]

I have a Tesla system and am happy with it. I ordered it in January of this year. $2.50 per watt and 2.99% financing.

Because they are lower priced the demand is high, so I doubt you will get in under NEM 2.0 with Tesla. Unless you are aggressive about getting an install going it's doubtful you will get in under NEM 2.0 with any vendor.

Your best bet aside from aggressively scheduling an install at this point is to try to calculate or see if people are calculating optimal sizing with NEM 3.0, or whatever they are calling it. It's supposed to "encourage" batteries but batteries are still expensive.

Now after this NEM 2.0 rush things may settle down and demand may drop, and pricing may or may not drop with it. Certainly the economics and payback will have to be recalculated.

[wheaton4prez]

It has passed as of yesterday. The per-kW roof charge was removed from the previous proposed decision, so that's old news.

The biggest two changes are 1) You will have to switch to EV-TOU-5 instead of being able to use TOU-DR1 or EV-TOU-2. EV-TOU-5 comes with a $16 fixed charge, so at true up you will have that $192 fixed charge, plus NBCs, minus climate credit. And 2) export rate is no longer at retail rate, it's going to be approximately 25% of what you would get on NEM 2.0.

The goal behind it is to push payback out to 9 years.

NME 1.0 and 2.0 remain unchanged.

I would do your best to get in under NEM 2.0. From what I understand, you only need the site survey and the associated documentation to file the interconnect agreement. Install can be completed later. If installers increase prices in the short term you'll have to do the math to see if getting on NEM 2.0 at a higher install price outweighs the fixed charge and export reduction.

Good luck!

Thank you. The 3.0 is pretty remarkable. I don't know what kind of smoke-filled room deals happened around that. But, it seems like it won't stand because it makes solar not worth it...

I am indeed pushing to get the "PTO" in place before the cut-off (April 14th I believe).

A lot of places do have high prices right now. But, I found a few that are ok. What do you think about Tesla?

[OCJ]

Thank you. I did hear about that from one of the vendors. They said it's being voted on in a week and then there is a 120 day grace period before it goes into effect.

It feels like this might be why some vendors are hard to reach and are raising prices. There is likely a big push for installs right now to get in on 2.0.

This vendor claimed that the cost from SDG&E would go from $10 a month to $100 a month (including the export change). To me, that sounds a bit implausible since it would make getting solar at all a lot less attractive. But, I guess maybe that is the goal for some parties?

It has passed as of yesterday. The per-kW roof charge was removed from the previous proposed decision, so that's old news.

The biggest two changes are 1) You will have to switch to EV-TOU-5 instead of being able to use TOU-DR1 or EV-TOU-2. EV-TOU-5 comes with a $16 fixed charge, so at true up you will have that $192 fixed charge, plus NBCs, minus climate credit. And 2) export rate is no longer at retail rate, it's going to be approximately 25% of what you would get on NEM 2.0.

The goal behind it is to push payback out to 9 years.

NME 1.0 and 2.0 remain unchanged.

I would do your best to get in under NEM 2.0. From what I understand, you only need the site survey and the associated documentation to file the interconnect agreement. Install can be completed later. If installers increase prices in the short term you'll have to do the math to see if getting on NEM 2.0 at a higher install price outweighs the fixed charge and export reduction.

Good luck!

[wheaton4prez]

Not sure if you've heard about NEM 3.0 but you might want to accelerate your plans and get in under NEM 2.0. By accelerate I mean get some quotes like yesterday.

Even if it goes through as-is, export credit is going to get slashed, especially on SDG&E. The proposed decision right now is aimed at pushing your payback out a few more years. The IOUs are still trying to get the monthly tax added back in and they are not happy about it getting removed in the latest PD.

Become familiar with your Green Button data, https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php, https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov, grab an Emporia Vue Utility Connect, and get your system ordered ASAP.

Thank you. I did hear about that from one of the vendors. They said it's being voted on in a week and then there is a 120 day grace period before it goes into effect.

It feels like this might be why some vendors are hard to reach and are raising prices. There is likely a big push for installs right now to get in on 2.0.

This vendor claimed that the cost from SDG&E would go from $10 a month to $100 a month (including the export change). To me, that sounds a bit implausible since it would make getting solar at all a lot less attractive. But, I guess maybe that is the goal for some parties?

[wheaton4prez]

FWIW, that's about average in my HOA and not much more than the national average for single family detached homes.

Thank you. That's good to know. I imagine we're not the only ones with a bunch of screens going constantly. House is also on the small side for the area.

[wheaton4prez]

That is the DROK I use, which is capable of registering KWh over
a period of time. Not the only option. An instantaneous measurement
may be quite different than over an hour or a week (or a year). It is
120V or 240V capable, which the K-A-W is not. One wire of the current
loop (thru source and load) needs to pass thru the current transformer,
if both power cable wires went thru, the currents would cancel. This can
be set up at the distribution box for hard wired stuff (like AC), I made a
240VAC male cord-female plug set for pluggable stuff.

240KWM2.JPG

New is not an efficiency guarantee. Hope you have really good
insulation in the house. Check the SEER rating on the AC, the
newest variable speed inverter drive units can cut your use in
half (as they have for my neighbor and me), besides being
nearly silent in operation.

LED lights are good, I suspect a heat pump water heater will
do better than a tankless. Computing and communication
activities ARE NOT inherently energy intensive, same for
sound systems, even more so if not active 24/7. AC and
heating ARE. Numbers will tell your story.
good luck, Bruce Roe

Thank you. I have a KAW-style device arriving any day. I think that will be enough for me and the other DROK may be more of a project than I can take on right now. Impressive though. I wish I had the electrician help me set that up when I did the remodel.

Will check the AC qualities. The insulation I don't think was anything new-age. Pink fiberglass. But, I did have them put it into ceilings and interior walls. Windows, sliders are all new high quality. The front door is probably a weak link because its one of those split doors that can open at the top and the installer (me) didn't quite complete the job with the right sealing solution in between panels.

I agree that the AC is the biggest culprit. Our bill is lower now in winter when its not used. But, its still high, imo. The server has a 1000w PSU and runs a RAID of over 12 HD 24/7. Gaming systems have these newer GPUs that need big PSU also. I'm curious to find out how it all measures out.

[Ampster]

Is it paranoia when they're really out to get you? .......

It all depends on where you are standing? I have a behind the meter hybrid battery system and a October 2021 PTO on a GT system on NEM 2.0. I have some strategies to reduce the impact of any decision they may make in December or later. I have a friend who signed an agreement for an install which I hope gets installed before whatever deadline results from the decision or deferred decision by the CPUC.

[OCJ]

I'd tap the brakes on the paranoia.
I'm as cynical as anyone and more than most about PCOs in general, especially after seeing in a fair amount of detail over the last 50 years or so and the B.S. that I.O.U.'s can try and sometimes/often succeed in pulling off - often with the help of fear mongering like this.

Still, and while NEM 3.0 will most certainly happen at some point, no one - not the I.O.U.'s, any consumer or consumer group, no PV peddlers or even the CA PUC - even the courts that will likely be involved in the lawsuits undoubtedly brought on by NEM 3.0 know what the final form will take.

So, while I'd suggest acting quickly to gather as much information as possible and becoming as educated as possible about the PV process, I'd also suggest not becoming paranoid and running off headlong to buy stuff in a fearful and uninformed way. That's what I've seen and tried to educate folks against doing for most of those same 50 years and have seen the poor decisions, crappy and a lot less than good to the point of being senseless solar energy systems thrown at ill-informed choices made in near panic produced as a result of the fear mongering that ignorance feeds on.

Wheaton4prez: Don't be rash. Spend time educating yourself about the best ways to meet your goals and do so with alacrity and focus and don't worry beyond staying informed about crap you have no control over like what the CPUC may or may not be thinking of doing.

Is it paranoia when they're really out to get you? I just had a read through AB 205 that I saw referenced in some CPUC comments and was quite surprised. https://openstates.org/ca/bills/20212022/AB205/, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...202120220AB205

Certainly don't take the first deal that's offered, but become educated fairly quickly and get some quotes. Post back here for feedback.

I get what J.P.M. is saying about I.O.U.'s and their wish lists, the Sierra Club and its bad ideas, and the HAAS list of even worse ideas, but when I see income based fixed charges in a passed and signed assembly bill the writing is on the wall. To me it seems the best position you can be in at this point is grandfathered in the most favorable agreement and plan possible. I think some of these ideas they're cooking up with undoubtedly end up in the courts but in the meantime you can get your system paying you back as quickly as possible.

[J.P.M.]

Not sure if you've heard about NEM 3.0 but you might want to accelerate your plans and get in under NEM 2.0. By accelerate I mean get some quotes like yesterday.

Even if it goes through as-is, export credit is going to get slashed, especially on SDG&E. The proposed decision right now is aimed at pushing your payback out a few more years. The IOUs are still trying to get the monthly tax added back in and they are not happy about it getting removed in the latest PD.

Become familiar with your Green Button data, https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php, https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov, grab an Emporia Vue Utility Connect, and get your system ordered ASAP.

I'd tap the brakes on the paranoia.
I'm as cynical as anyone and more than most about PCOs in general, especially after seeing in a fair amount of detail over the last 50 years or so and the B.S. that I.O.U.'s can try and sometimes/often succeed in pulling off - often with the help of fear mongering like this.

Still, and while NEM 3.0 will most certainly happen at some point, no one - not the I.O.U.'s, any consumer or consumer group, no PV peddlers or even the CA PUC - even the courts that will likely be involved in the lawsuits undoubtedly brought on by NEM 3.0 know what the final form will take.

So, while I'd suggest acting quickly to gather as much information as possible and becoming as educated as possible about the PV process, I'd also suggest not becoming paranoid and running off headlong to buy stuff in a fearful and uninformed way. That's what I've seen and tried to educate folks against doing for most of those same 50 years and have seen the poor decisions, crappy and a lot less than good to the point of being senseless solar energy systems thrown at ill-informed choices made in near panic produced as a result of the fear mongering that ignorance feeds on.

Wheaton4prez: Don't be rash. Spend time educating yourself about the best ways to meet your goals and do so with alacrity and focus and don't worry beyond staying informed about crap you have no control over like what the CPUC may or may not be thinking of doing.

[OCJ]

Not sure if you've heard about NEM 3.0 but you might want to accelerate your plans and get in under NEM 2.0. By accelerate I mean get some quotes like yesterday.

Even if it goes through as-is, export credit is going to get slashed, especially on SDG&E. The proposed decision right now is aimed at pushing your payback out a few more years. The IOUs are still trying to get the monthly tax added back in and they are not happy about it getting removed in the latest PD.

Become familiar with your Green Button data, https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php, https://www.californiadgstats.ca.gov, grab an Emporia Vue Utility Connect, and get your system ordered ASAP.

[J.P.M.]

Approximately 14,280.

Thank you.

FWIW, that's about average in my HOA and not much more than the national average for single family detached homes.

If you're in N. County and a bit inland, expect about 1,700 or so kWh/yr. per installed STC kW for a reasonably south facing array at maybe between a 15 to 30 degree slope.
Just know that you'll be on one of several T.O.U. tariffs if you get PV.
Part of your education will be learning the ins/outs of SDG & E tariffs and policies and which one(s) may be the most cost effective for you (or the biggest screw jobs). Expect little help from SDG & E with respect to easy to understand answers.

[bcroe]

I took the house down to the studs and remodeled it after purchase only a few years ago. So, everything is newer. New AC. New electrical. Tankless water heater. All lights LED. City even made me put in a whole-house fire sprinkler system.

I think the house itself is pretty optimized. It's just that we are all also very heavy electronics users. Powerful gaming computers running long hours. Home entertainment system with surround sound going all day. Wife is from the East Coast. So, she is used to AC running all day. I run a software business from home office. So, I have multiple PCs and a pretty hefty server running.

That said, the meter could be helpful identifying which machine(s) are hurting us most. Do I understand the DROK correctly that the little sleave would go around the power cable and it reads through it that way? Is this right one?

That is the DROK I use, which is capable of registering KWh over
a period of time. Not the only option. An instantaneous measurement
may be quite different than over an hour or a week (or a year). It is
120V or 240V capable, which the K-A-W is not. One wire of the current
loop (thru source and load) needs to pass thru the current transformer,
if both power cable wires went thru, the currents would cancel. This can
be set up at the distribution box for hard wired stuff (like AC), I made a
240VAC male cord-female plug set for pluggable stuff.

240KWM2.JPG

New is not an efficiency guarantee. Hope you have really good
insulation in the house. Check the SEER rating on the AC, the
newest variable speed inverter drive units can cut your use in
half (as they have for my neighbor and me), besides being
nearly silent in operation.

LED lights are good, I suspect a heat pump water heater will
do better than a tankless. Computing and communication
activities ARE NOT inherently energy intensive, same for
sound systems, even more so if not active 24/7. AC and
heating ARE. Numbers will tell your story.
good luck, Bruce Roe

[wheaton4prez]

So, for a start, how many kWh do you use per year ?

Approximately 14,280.