Hello from Missouri City, Texas (SW Houston)

[GoingElectric]

Hello from Missouri City, Texas, located about 25 miles SW of Houston city.

Always wanted to go solar, but the cost was always a deterrent. Wanted about a 7 year ROI. (not happening).
Was looking at getting an EV, but with the volatility in market, that went out window.

I have always seen Costco SunRun, and 3 weeks ago I decided to ask, and have a proposal.

15 panels (asked for 2 more)
Hanwha Q-Cells, Q.PEAK DUO ML-G10+ 410
Enphase Energy IQ8PLUS-72-2-US
Enphase controller
SnapNrack mount.

AND
a new roof (20 years old, needs to be replaced)

Some numbers
Annual Usage 6,625 kWh
Estimated System Size 6.15 kWp
Estimated Annual System Production 8,000 kWh

I have a south roof, but is at 40 degrees to ground, and house is at 29.5 latitude (ideal if both are equal), which is not ideal but will help in winter when panels are closer to 90 degrees.
The west roof will allow for 90 degree, but slightly less sun hours (not sure if better).


Current provider is Gexa.

$28K is price, which is high, for material cost but reasonable compared to others. I will be getting more quotes.


In future will replace my gas water heater to hybrid.
Heating already is floor heaters when cold.
House heat is gas (if I use it), likely go heat-pump when have to replace that.

Trying to upload plan image (guess cannot because new to forums)

[bcroe]

The numbers look OK for a net metering system to eliminate your
electric bill. The high roof angle might work better than you thought.
In winter when sun is not as strong, the better angle will help your
production and keep snow off. In summer the poorer angle will be
compensated by stronger sun and longer days.

Heat pumps are great, but have trouble competing directly with
natural gas heat. Here at 42 deg Lat, I use them to heat and cool 2
buildings (air to air), but require a solar system several times as big.
good luck, Bruce Roe

[GoingElectric]

The numbers look OK for a net metering system to eliminate your
electric bill. The high roof angle might work better than you thought.
In winter when sun is not as strong, the better angle will help your
production and keep snow off. In summer the poorer angle will be
compensated by stronger sun and longer days.

Heat pumps are great, but have trouble competing directly with
natural gas heat. Here at 42 deg Lat, I use them to heat and cool 2
buildings (air to air), but require a solar system several times as big.
good luck, Bruce Roe

Thanks for check, Bruce!

I concur on the angle vs seasons compensation also.

Where I live it has not snowed in years (used to be regular), and average winter temp is low 40's with dips into 30's, and about 3 light freeze a year (just below freezing at night, up again during day). Heat pump will work well in winter.

[J.P.M.]

1.) Is this proposed deal a purchase, a lease or a PPA ?

2.) What is your current, annual electric bill ?

3.) How much of that $28K is for the roof replacement ?

4.) According to PVWatts and your supplied data, including location, a 6.15 STC kW PV system at a 40 deg. slope, south facing orientation will provide ~ 9,300 kWh/yr.

Looks to me like Sunrun is making love to rover on that one, but given that they're one of the solar bottom feeders, I'm not surprised. If your data is reasonably representative of your application, Sunrun has you oversized by something like 9,300 kWh/yr./6,625 kWh/yr ~ 40 % or more at your current usage.

As for going all or mostly all electric - Why ?

5.) A vertical west facing system of the same size will produce ~ 5,100 kWh/yr. From a cost effectiveness standpoint, that doesn't seem like a good choice compared to a south facing array.

6.) If you need a new roof, get a roofer you trust, not a solar vendor who will probably sub the roof out and add markup.

7.) And while you're at it, look around for a local electrical contractor who has sold/installed PV for >10 years. You can do a lot better with local, established vendors than with any of the big national conmen. You can certainly do a lot better in the quality of install dept. that that outfit.

8.) Your choice on the space heating and water heating method. I expect you don't need much. I'd stick with the gas, but not m hose/choice.

Before you do anything else, do yourself a big favor and define your goals. Then, get/read a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" before you do anything else. You need more education.

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

[GoingElectric]

1.) Is this proposed deal a purchase, a lease or a PPA ?

2.) What is your current, annual electric bill ?

3.) How much of that $28K is for the roof replacement ?

4.) According to PVWatts and your supplied data, including location, a 6.15 STC kW PV system at a 40 deg. slope, south facing orientation will provide ~ 9,300 kWh/yr.

Looks to me like Sunrun is making love to rover on that one, but given that they're one of the solar bottom feeders, I'm not surprised. If your data is reasonably representative of your application, Sunrun has you oversized by something like 9,300 kWh/yr./6,625 kWh/yr ~ 40 % or more at your current usage.

As for going all or mostly all electric - Why ?

5.) A vertical west facing system of the same size will produce ~ 5,100 kWh/yr. From a cost effectiveness standpoint, that doesn't seem like a good choice compared to a south facing array.

6.) If you need a new roof, get a roofer you trust, not a solar vendor who will probably sub the roof out and add markup.

7.) And while you're at it, look around for a local electrical contractor who has sold/installed PV for >10 years. You can do a lot better with local, established vendors than with any of the big national conmen. You can certainly do a lot better in the quality of install dept. that that outfit.

8.) Your choice on the space heating and water heating method. I expect you don't need much. I'd stick with the gas, but not m hose/choice.

Before you do anything else, do yourself a big favor and define your goals. Then, get/read a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" before you do anything else. You need more education.

Welcome to the neighborhood and the forum of few(er) illusions.

Thanks for your time, JPM:

1. Purchase via a 20 year loan at 1.49%

2. $70 to $120 over year

3. $28K only for solar, roof not yet factored.

4. Sales guy said this is the minimum of range. It was originally 13 panels, but I asked to add 2 (15 total). Maybe bottom feeders but I am challenging each decision .

5. Thanks for estimate. My unknown is how much not being 90 degrees factors to generation.

6. Understood. Not have anyone I know, need to see local reviews.

7. Worthwhile effort

8. Water heating I will benefit (tank in hot attic). Furnace I barely use, may keep that.

Will do.

Thanks again!

[GoingElectric]

Before you do anything else, do yourself a big favor and define your goals. Then, get/read a copy of "Solar Power Your Home for Dummies" before you do anything else. You need more education.

Found free book on iBooks called "Solar Power Demystified" (will look at other)
YouTube only goes so far, hope this book will fill in details.

[J.P.M.]

Thanks for your time, JPM:

1. Purchase via a 20 year loan at 1.49%

2. $70 to $120 over year

3. $28K only for solar, roof not yet factored.

4. Sales guy said this is the minimum of range. It was originally 13 panels, but I asked to add 2 (15 total). Maybe bottom feeders but I am challenging each decision .

5. Thanks for estimate. My unknown is how much not being 90 degrees factors to generation.

6. Understood. Not have anyone I know, need to see local reviews.

7. Worthwhile effort

8. Water heating I will benefit (tank in hot attic). Furnace I barely use, may keep that.

Will do.

Thanks again!

You're most welcome. Thank you for the responses
Questions/comments back to you on those responses:

2.) $70 - $120 per year ?

3.) $28K/6.15 STC kW = $4.55/STC kW. That's a bit more than I paid 8 1/2 years ago for a Sunpower system. They not only oversized it by ~ 40 %, they overpriced it by ~ 40% per STC W as well.

4.) Unless there's something missing in your description of what you have, lower range my fundament.

With no shading, a 6.15 STC kW system with that orientation and location will produce, on average over the long term something like 9,000 to 9,500 kWh/yr. with most of the yearly system variation coming from the year to year variation in the weather.

5.) You can do your own modeling with PVWatts. That will take care of #5. Read the book first, then the instructions and notes for the model. It takes about an hour or less to read the instructions a couple of times and then do a couple of runs. You'll quickly get the knack. After the read of the dummies book and the modeling, come back here and ask questions your self education creates that can't be answered by your reading and modeling.

6.) On line reviews are either plants or stuff written by people who most likely don't know any more about residential PV than you do. I'd take all of that with some caution. better to first talk directly to several roofers and ask to see their work. Then use your gut. Only then go to on line reviews for a gut check of your gut feelings from the interviews. A roof is about the last place on a house to make a mistake or try to cheap out - especially when an array will be over a part of it making that portion of the roof mostly inaccessible if a problem develops.

7.) Lots of folks would consider it an essential task.

Some effort at self education and deliberate planning now will pay big dividends in the future by way of a safer and more fit for purpose system.

Buy right and it'll also be more cost effective. Just don't confuse low initial cost with cost effectiveness.

Dutch uncle mode off.

Good luck

[GoingElectric]

Well, J.P.M. , have a new tangent while researching.
My current electricity provider GEXA Energy has no net metering / buyback policy (not unexpected), so need to find another.

You might know in Texas I can choose energy providers (under ERCOT) (not the transmission system, that is fixed with Centerpoint Energy) (this link another info site).

This web site offers great info on a dozen of the 150+ power providing companies in the ERCOT network.

Of the list, the one that stands out the most is Octopus, a UK company that supports Renewables.
Second is Champion that supports net-metering and adjusts to market values, but only rollover.

I am happy to have a Dutch Uncle.

PS, I am unable to upload attachments to posts despite the tools. Who/When is that possible?

[J.P.M.]

Found free book on iBooks called "Solar Power Demystified" (will look at other)
YouTube only goes so far, hope this book will fill in details.

The book is dated but a lot of it is still valid. IMO, it's still a good primer for those who want the basics. Those who take what it offers seriously before they buy anything can have an easier time and have a higher probability of winding up with a safer, cleaner, better designed and more cost effective system.

As for U-Tube, when I was a kid, the Reader's Digest was pejoratively called the Idiot's Bible for pretty obvious reasons when folks could still be found who knew how to think.

I call U-tube the "New Idiot's Bible" because it seems to me it's mostly a bunch of unvetted crap and otherwise useless tripe, some of which is dangerous, but that's just my opinion.

[solardreamer]

Hello from Missouri City, Texas, located about 25 miles SW of Houston city.


$28K is price, which is high, for material cost but reasonable compared to others. I will be getting more quotes.

Reasonable? How much are the other quotes you got? Seems way high.

[GoingElectric]

The book is dated but a lot of it is still valid. IMO, it's still a good primer for those who want the basics. Those who take what it offers seriously before they buy anything can have an easier time and have a higher probability of winding up with a safer, cleaner, better designed and more cost effective system.

As for U-Tube, when I was a kid, the Reader's Digest was pejoratively called the Idiot's Bible for pretty obvious reasons when folks could still be found who knew how to think.

I call U-tube the "New Idiot's Bible" because it seems to me it's mostly a bunch of unvetted crap and otherwise useless tripe, some of which is dangerous, but that's just my opinion.

Thanks for review of that book. Getting "Dummies" is cheap insurance too.

Yes, YT has a lot of junk on it, makes hard to find the good stuff. But there is good stuff there that cannot be found elsewhere or explains something very well.

[GoingElectric]

Reasonable? How much are the other quotes you got? Seems way high.

Talking to neighbors, reading what other people got (not in here).
Many are > 30K, while a recent quote is <$20k.
Neighbor paid about $65K to have entire roof covered.

[J.P.M.]

Yes, YT has a lot of junk on it, makes hard to find the good stuff. But there is good stuff there that cannot be found elsewhere or explains something very well.

All of which is pretty scary considering how many folks will look at anything on a tube like gaping, knuckle dragging mouth breathers and call it gospel. Discernment went out the window about the same time as critical thinking skills.

Rant mode off.

[solardreamer]

Talking to neighbors, reading what other people got (not in here).
Many are > 30K, while a recent quote is <$20k.
Neighbor paid about $65K to have entire roof covered.

Can't really compare total price unless you know the system detail. As JPM pointed out, your quote is well over $4/W.

[J.P.M.]

Can't really compare total price unless you know the system detail. As JPM pointed out, your quote is well over $4/W.

Which, as I recall, without the reroof came out to = $4.55/STC W.

The system details and the system price alone from the vendor expressed as $/(STC W) before any incentives or tax credits is the usual basis to compare prices.