Hello from Poway CA

[J.P.M.]

Yes that is exactly what I was referring to when I said leverage existing solar. For example several years ago on NEM 1.0 my True up consisted of a 1,000 or so of net kWhrs consumption. My NEM dollar balance was a credit of maybe $100. The True up calculation washed out that credit against my consumption. Much of that consumption was EV charging at off peak and the dollar credit was from generation at Peak and Mid peak.
I am in a different situation in a new location with NEM 2.0 and we will see how that works out.

But what about ROI for a vehicle ? Besides being able to calc an ROI for a vehicle that's partly used for a business as well as vehicles used solely for a business, I'm pretty sure I read your post as : "...One cannot measure the ROI of an automobile purchase (emphasis mine) unless it is used entirely for business...".

I get all that about off peak rates for consumption and on peak rates for generation for T.O.U. under NEM 1.0, and how NEM 2.0 got rid of most of that advantage. I've been and still am in similar situations w/excess generation w/tiered rates. Hell, under the NEM 1.0 times for a lot, if not most old T.O.U. tariff times, a PV system could be sized to generate less than a 100% offset of kWh usage and still result in an annual electric bill < $0. A poster w/the handle Sensij and I hammered that one out a few years ago before NEM 2.0 gutted the advantages.

I do agree that EV charging can be a viable way to lower vehicle fuel costs, and you can call it what, but I'd call that EV charging part of the system load like an increased A/C load due to a home addition which was not part of the original PV sizing or design considerations. Seems to me if I have an oversized system, I'd call an added EV charging load just that - an added load. Put another way, if I oversized an EV system, consiously or ignorantly, when would I consider such added loads "leverage", as opposed to an opportunity to use excess but unplanned generation such as when excess generation is dissipated by heating water that's not needed ? Do I consider every added load to be leverging the system ? Would it be leverage if the oversizing was done with future EV charging in mind ? If so, what roll do proper and knowledgeable sizing and system design play? With most everyone who comes here saying they are going to get PV and also saying they intend to oversize because they are getting an EV "someday", is that considered leveraging a system's output, or simpl,y sizing for future (and known/identified) duties or uses ?

But what does any of that have to do with ROI for a vehicle ?

Another question: How do you measure, or change, or adjust - if at all - PV system cost effectiveness by whatever measure(s) your using if, for example, an oversized system's excess generation (which suffers from some cost ineffectiveness penalty from the oversize) is subsequently used to charge an EV if the super off peak charging rates, say midnite to 6 A.M., are very low as is the case w/some CA POCO T.O.U. rates ? Higher system utilization factor but but lower LCOE.

[Ampster]

But what about ROI for a vehicle ?

I answered that in an earlier post.

I do agree that EV charging can be a viable way to lower vehicle fuel costs, and you can call it what, but I'd call that EV charging part of the system load like an increased A/C load due to a home addition which was not part of the original PV sizing or design considerations. Seems to me if I have an oversized system, I'd call an added EV charging load just that - an added load. Put another way, if I oversized an EV system, consiously or ignorantly, when would I consider such added loads "leverage", as opposed to an opportunity to use excess but unplanned generation such as when excess generation is dissipated by heating water that's not needed ? Do I consider every added load to be leverging the system ? Would it be leverage if the oversizing was done with future EV charging in mind ? If so, what roll do proper and knowledgeable sizing and system design play? With most everyone who comes here saying they are going to get PV and also saying they intend to oversize because they are getting an EV "someday", is that considered leveraging a system's output, or simpl,y sizing for future (and known/identified) duties or uses ?

I called it leveraging solar but it could be called sizing for the future or anything you want to call the concept. Would synergy be a better term? It does have a nice ring to it.

If you want to hijack this thread by leveraging my comment about leveraging, start a new thread about integrated decision making for EV and Solar purchases.

[J.P.M.]

I answered that in an earlier post.

I called it leveraging solar but it could be called sizing for the future or anything you want to call the concept. Would synergy be a better term? It does have a nice ring to it.

If you want to hijack this thread by leveraging my comment about leveraging, start a new thread about integrated decision making for EV and Solar purchases.

Who started all the talk about ROI of vehicles ? Not me. Look in a mirror. You did.

Saying I hijacked this thread is incorrect. I'm not the hijack police, but I was calling you out on what looks to me like your hijack of the thread and thread topic by asking you "Who said anything about vehicle ROI ?" in what's probably a rhetorical way and intent with the hope of keeping the thread on topic or at least closer to topic.

The way I see it, I was responding to the OP's question about generation credits. I offered the comment that the difference he found had to do with NBC. You then come out of left field and start writing about vehicle ROIs. The OP then wrote he could now "...go on to model the effect of adding a plugin hybrid to my electrical demand...?

You then throw vehicle ROI into the mix

I see your actions as a thread hijack. I see my actions as calling you out for it.

I'll be more specific: What the hell does vehicle ROI have to do with the OP's stated quest/goal for being here : "...to glean information, especially about the nitty gritty details of SDG & E billing" ?

I have a difficult time making a connection between the general thread subject of SDG & E billing and vehicle ROI.

You want to talk about vehicle ROI ? I'd suggest you consider starting a new thread. Better yet, maybe find a vehicle forum that relates to that subject rather than one with a sign over the door that says "Solar Panel Talk".

The last word on your actions related to this thread is yours.

[Ampster]

Saying I hijacked this thread is incorrect. .

You are correct, It is predictable that mentioning anything to do with the synergy of an EV with rooftop solar and TOU rates would result in pages of argument. I should have known better.

I was hoping for a meaningful dialogue with the OP since he mentioned that he was considering an EV. My apologies to the OP.

[RichardCullip]

You are correct, It is predictable that mentioning anything to do with the synergy of an EV with rooftop solar and TOU rates would result in pages of argument. I should have known better.

I was hoping for a meaningful dialogue with the OP since he mentioned that he was considering an EV. My apologies to the OP.

Apology accepted. I wasn’t about to jump into the middle of this kurfuffle.

[Ampster]

During the past seven years have had a plugin hybrid and 7 EVs. Some were leased and some were purchased. Two were in a business and one was used by an employee/business partner. To me the important issue is to match your needs with the available choices. There are some very good choices out there compared to when I began that journey in 2012 converting a VW Bug to electric.

[RichardCullip]

During the past seven years have had a plugin hybrid and 7 EVs. Some were leased and some were purchased. Two were in a business and one was used by an employee/business partner. To me the important issue is to match your needs with the available choices. There are some very good choices out there compared to when I began that journey in 2012 converting a VW Bug to electric.

I will have to come back later and discuss EVs with you in a new post. At this moment I'm still trying to get a firm grip on what my decision parameters will be. I've been driving a 2011 Prius since it was new and it's getting near it's end of life. I like the extended range capacity of a hybrid since we have a few trips each month that exceed the range of a pure EV and I don't like the idea of stopping to charge nor the range anxiety involved in driving a pure EV. Leaning towards a plug-in EV as most of our daily trips are well within the current plug-in EV range. On paper I like the Kia Niro PHEV but haven't tried one for size. The test driving will wait until early next year due to budget constraints.

[Ampster]

I will have to come back later and discuss EVs with you in a new post. ....... On paper I like the Kia Niro PHEV but haven't tried one for size. The test driving will wait until early next year due to budget constraints.

I would look forward to that discussion. I had my eye on the Kia Nero EV and I have heard good things about all the iterations of the Kia Niro. I think by early next year the supply chain may be more to a buyers advantage anyway, especially compared to now when the dealers are adding on premiums just because the supply is limited.

[Ampster]

I will add a comical aside to range anxiety. I used to have those same thoughts and that is why I leased a Chevy Volt for a while. However, I am 75 years old and I have to pee every hour and a half and conveniently DC fast charging stations are located approximately 100 miles apart on the Interstates in California. In the time that it takes me to do my business, stretch and talk my wife into driving the next leg I have added 125 miles of range. It has become a non issue for me. But a Plug In hybrid is a good alternative.