Solar newbie from Ohio

[solarix]

If you are a capable DIY type and want to do solar, I say go for it. Equipment costs are are now very reasonable and you avoid so much cost by DIY, that you can undercut almost any utility. Do your homework, be willing to bull through any red tape and stick it to the man.....

[jflorey2]

I agree with you on the micro level (ie toilet paper and beans)......but as the cost increases that reasoning is increasing ignored. Thus a $20k, $30k or even $40k solar PV investment with no hope of ever seeing a positive return is not seen as a economic investment....but as a donation to "saving the world". Those who have the ability to "donate" do so. It makes you feel good.

I guess such people exist; I've never met them. Pretty much everyone I've talked to about solar sees two benefits - ecological and financial. People place different values on each, but I have yet to meet anyone who says "I don't care what it costs or what the results will be! Save the planet at any cost!"

As evidence, consider the effect government subsidies have on PV installation rates. If high cost installations (i.e. >20K) were seen as "donations to save the world" rather than sound economic investments - and that effect increased with cost - then subsidies wouldn't have much effect on installations; people would "donate" regardless of financial incentives that decrease payback time.

[SunEagle]

I guess such people exist; I've never met them. Pretty much everyone I've talked to about solar sees two benefits - ecological and financial. People place different values on each, but I have yet to meet anyone who says "I don't care what it costs or what the results will be! Save the planet at any cost!"

As evidence, consider the effect government subsidies have on PV installation rates. If high cost installations (i.e. >20K) were seen as "donations to save the world" rather than sound economic investments - and that effect increased with cost - then subsidies wouldn't have much effect on installations; people would "donate" regardless of financial incentives that decrease payback time.

If people were really serious in "saving the world" then I would expect them to stop using their ICE vehicles as well as turning off their electrical appliances when power from RE was not available.

Instead most just point to the POCO's or some other CO2 generating source and say "you have to cut your production so I can sit by warm and happy". Since those people don't take a major part in reducing their usages I would say the main drive is economical and not ecological. Or those people really don't believe that CO2 is a problem but like to join the crowd and blame the POCO's.

[jflorey2]

If people were really serious in "saving the world" then I would expect them to stop using their ICE vehicles as well as turning off their electrical appliances when power from RE was not available.

Instead most just point to the POCO's or some other CO2 generating source and say "you have to cut your production so I can sit by warm and happy". Since those people don't take a major part in reducing their usages I would say the main drive is economical and not ecological. Or those people really don't believe that CO2 is a problem but like to join the crowd and blame the POCO's.

Agreed. Most people are willing to spend a little (money/time/convenience) to be "green" but not a lot. In addition, the POCO is often saying to them "you have to cut your so everyone can sit warm and happy" - and historically they are willing to do that a little bit. Pretty much everyone out there (with rare examples) makes their decisions on power usage, gasoline usage, installation of renewable generation etc based on more than one factor.

[J.P.M.]

Agreed. Most people are willing to spend a little (money/time/convenience) to be "green" but not a lot. In addition, the POCO is often saying to them "you have to cut your so everyone can sit warm and happy" - and historically they are willing to do that a little bit. Pretty much everyone out there (with rare examples) makes their decisions on power usage, gasoline usage, installation of renewable generation etc based on more than one factor.

Yea, and while mostly agreeing, I've come to the opinion through observation that the economics of the bottom line are, for most users in developed countries anyway, the governing factor for most everyone, with some concern for the planet, but with any additional perceived (and not necessarily any actual) savings always getting the advantage. The environment gets the platitudes and the leftovers, and not much else, at least not from the well heeled.

[DanS26]

Maybe some of you guys can explain this.....I know people (including some of my relatives) that will drive a 2.5 ton vehicle 20 miles to recycle $.10 worth of aluminum and glass bottles. They are "green" and saving the earth......it just boggles my mind.

[J.P.M.]

Maybe some of you guys can explain this.....I know people (including some of my relatives) that will drive a 2.5 ton vehicle 20 miles to recycle $.10 worth of aluminum and glass bottles. They are "green" and saving the earth......it just boggles my mind.

Since you seem to be asking:

Don't know if this explains much of any of it, but if something is repeated often enough and by enough sources it becomes reality. People see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. That leads to believing what they want to believe.

For the 1st 10 years of my adult working career I made a more than decent living as a peddler by using those axioms and by changing people's perceptions of what they thought they saw until my version of how things could be turned into their desired reality. That's called closing the deal.

Your acquaintances and most everyone on the planet have had their reality checks manipulated away from using the compass of common sense. Life gets temporarily easier when you believe without question everything you see, hear and read, especially if it's presented often and everywhere. The term sheeple comes to mind.

As usual, take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

[bcroe]

Maybe some of you guys can explain this.....I know people (including some of my relatives) that will drive a 2.5 ton vehicle 20 miles to recycle $.10 worth of aluminum and glass bottles. They are "green" and saving the earth......it just boggles my mind.

Good luck; I doubt you'll ever change them. It took me MANY decades to realize that people are hardly
ever guided by logic. Here the rule is, a car doesn't start until there are 3 decent reasons its needed,
hopefully in the same general direction. I try to do most shopping on line, letting USPS, etc handle delivery.

Tomorrow I need to cover 30 miles, to pick up 200 lb pounds of project metal. This saves an $80 delivery fee,
hope I can find one more reason besides my recycling. Bruce Roe