Hello from Phoenix/Gilbert

[Tyler]

I kept ignoring solar for the past several years believing it was not financially beneficial to myself. After the 5th house on our street put up Solar City I thought maybe it was time to look into it. I have had three companies come out so far and give me quotes with the last one coming this Wednesday. I am looking at leasing because we will not be in our current house more than 10yrs. My logic is paying for all now with cash I will not see my full payback for 6-7yrs at min. Doing the lease allows me to save $85 per month based on my calculations. I am on a time of use plan and if I can shave off my peak usage and not have to buy any electric during these three hours, due to the system producing enough that I will not be drawing any from the electric company.

Let the research continue....

[Ian S]

Welcome Tyler! There are quite a few Valley of the Sun folks round the forum. It does appear that there are some good deals these days in this local area so outright purchase payback can happen well before the end of your 10 year timeframe. If you are intent on leasing just be aware you'll find an anti-leasing bias among many here. The main potential drawback to (monthly) leasing in your situation is added difficulty in selling your home because you will either have to buy the lease out - if that's permitted - or convince the buyer to take over the lease payments. Also, here in Arizona, it appears that leased systems will be subject to a property tax levied each year but declining with time. It is actually a tax on the lessor but will almost certainly be passed on to the lessee. There is a fight against it but no certainty that the opposition will prevail. In any event, you'll want to keep meticulous records showing how much the solar is saving you. Another possibility is a prepaid lease which has many of the attributes of purchase but with maintenance included and usually at lower out of pocket cost.

The details vary a bit between APS and SRP but you are correct in your efforts to avoid peak usage. Before you do anything with solar, you should perform an energy audit and institute as much conservation as you can. That will determine how much solar you actually need and get you the most bang for your buck.

[J.P.M.]

Welcome Tyler! There are quite a few Valley of the Sun folks round the forum. It does appear that there are some good deals these days in this local area so outright purchase payback can happen well before the end of your 10 year timeframe. If you are intent on leasing just be aware you'll find an anti-leasing bias among many here. The main potential drawback to (monthly) leasing in your situation is added difficulty in selling your home because you will either have to buy the lease out - if that's permitted - or convince the buyer to take over the lease payments. Also, here in Arizona, it appears that leased systems will be subject to a property tax levied each year but declining with time. It is actually a tax on the lessor but will almost certainly be passed on to the lessee. There is a fight against it but no certainty that the opposition will prevail. In any event, you'll want to keep meticulous records showing how much the solar is saving you. Another possibility is a prepaid lease which has many of the attributes of purchase but with maintenance included and usually at lower out of pocket cost.

The details vary a bit between APS and SRP but you are correct in your efforts to avoid peak usage. Before you do anything with solar, you should perform an energy audit and institute as much conservation as you can. That will determine how much solar you actually need and get you the most bang for your buck.

I'd also suggest there is just as much pro leasing bias on this forum as anti leasing bias. Listen to both sides and others in the middle, and walk in with your eyes, ears, brain and opinion open.

[Tyler]

SolarCity had the best pre-pay for the lease option, dropping the cost down to 5.3 cents / KWH. I did not realize there was a tax on the leased system, which I am assuming as well is already figured into the cost of the lease per month.

I will run the numbers again for the purchase and see what the savings will be at year 10 assuming a total payoff at year 6. SolarCity doesn't mention the panels they're going to use, but Solar Topps was quick to point out how bad the panels SolarCity degrade over time vs. how little the Sunpower panels do. I received another quote to buy out right and that they had some commercial panels left over from another project that they could sell me at a discounted rate. So many different panels and options that makes it difficult to compare offers and know if you're getting a good deal.

[Tyler]

Before you do anything with solar, you should perform an energy audit and institute as much conservation as you can. That will determine how much solar you actually need and get you the most bang for your buck.

We did the audit last year. We replaced both of our pool pumps with variable speed motors, added 5" of insulation to our attic and added sun screens to our house.

[J.P.M.]

SolarCity had the best pre-pay for the lease option, dropping the cost down to 5.3 cents / KWH. I did not realize there was a tax on the leased system, which I am assuming as well is already figured into the cost of the lease per month.

I will run the numbers again for the purchase and see what the savings will be at year 10 assuming a total payoff at year 6. SolarCity doesn't mention the panels they're going to use, but Solar Topps was quick to point out how bad the panels SolarCity degrade over time vs. how little the Sunpower panels do. I received another quote to buy out right and that they had some commercial panels left over from another project that they could sell me at a discounted rate. So many different panels and options that makes it difficult to compare offers and know if you're getting a good deal.

Caveat Emptor.

[Ian S]

SolarCity had the best pre-pay for the lease option, dropping the cost down to 5.3 cents / KWH. I did not realize there was a tax on the leased system, which I am assuming as well is already figured into the cost of the lease per month.

I will run the numbers again for the purchase and see what the savings will be at year 10 assuming a total payoff at year 6. SolarCity doesn't mention the panels they're going to use, but Solar Topps was quick to point out how bad the panels SolarCity degrade over time vs. how little the Sunpower panels do. I received another quote to buy out right and that they had some commercial panels left over from another project that they could sell me at a discounted rate. So many different panels and options that makes it difficult to compare offers and know if you're getting a good deal.

IIRC, SolarCity rarely can say with certainty what panels they will use because they go with what's cheapest at the actual time of installation. That's not necessarily a bad thing when leasing but may not be the best when purchasing. I would also say that SolarCity rarely has the best purchase price among non-Sunpower vendors; their business model is really built around leasing and they want that to be your best option with them. Your numbers will likely not include the property tax because it's still being fought over and I think is now in the courts but you should ask any leasing companies to confirm that. My understanding is it will likely be in the hundreds of $$ initially and declining each year. You might search on AZcentral.com for articles about it.

I have to chuckle over the "commercial panels left over from another project" pitch. Sounds like the proverbial itinerant driveway paving company! As for Sunpower, they are top quality panels but you pay for it. They likely will outperform over the lifetime in terms of total energy produced plus they have a great warranty. Disclosure: I have a prepaid Sunpower lease.

[Ian S]

I'd also suggest there is just as much pro leasing bias on this forum as anti leasing bias. Listen to both sides and others in the middle, and walk in with your eyes, ears, brain and opinion open.

I'm not aware of anyone who has a pro-leasing bias at least not to the extent of the anti-leasing folks. What passes for "pro-leasing bias" are those of us who believe that there are clear pluses and minuses but that leasing can work for some folks however, the numbers have to be worked out on an individual basis. IMHO, there are some here who would simply never advise financing let alone leasing of solar.

[Tyler]

I am limited on roof space and need to go with a more efficient panel and or one that produce more watts per SQFT. This is the reason I have been looking at Sunpower lease. They have said that if I get a lower quote they will beat it which lets me know they're not at their lowest price yet.

[russ]

I'm not aware of anyone who has a pro-leasing bias at least not to the extent of the anti-leasing folks. What passes for "pro-leasing bias" are those of us who believe that there are clear pluses and minuses but that leasing can work for some folks however, the numbers have to be worked out on an individual basis. IMHO, there are some here who would simply never advise financing let alone leasing of solar.

Anti leasing or just against the concept where the government gives free money to the leasing companies?

If the law were written with just a small amount of intelligence they could have let the home owner have the benefit rather than some slimy leasing company.

One should always use the best deal possible for their personal situation.

[Ian S]

I am limited on roof space and need to go with a more efficient panel and or one that produce more watts per SQFT. This is the reason I have been looking at Sunpower lease. They have said that if I get a lower quote they will beat it which lets me know they're not at their lowest price yet.

Top efficiency i.e watts per unit area is certainly one of the reasons to go with Sunpower. Who is your utility?

[Tyler]

top efficiency i.e watts per unit area is certainly one of the reasons to go with sunpower. Who is your utility?

srp

[J.P.M.]

I'm not aware of anyone who has a pro-leasing bias at least not to the extent of the anti-leasing folks. What passes for "pro-leasing bias" are those of us who believe that there are clear pluses and minuses but that leasing can work for some folks however, the numbers have to be worked out on an individual basis. IMHO, there are some here who would simply never advise financing let alone leasing of solar.

Opinions on degrees of bias vary. I have mine. Looks like you have yours. I'd only reiterate to the OP, walk in with your eyes, ears, brain and opinion open on financing options/pros/cons.

[Ian S]

srp

I'm on APS but I know SRP has their true-up in the April timeframe so you don't get a chance to bank many kWh's prior to the summer heat. At least they pay you a bit more for that trueup than APS does. One of the guys here with SRP has looked closely at the practical effects of their solar rate structure so hopefully he will chime in.

[Tyler]

Can someone help me understand the price per kw that I see. I see one reference to actual cost and then another number where the total cost of the system is calculated. E.G. $3.50 or $2.98. How is this number calculated? I did Google this, but the number I was quoted I could not get when I did the calculation. Also my assumption is the lower you can get the cost the better or is the higher the better? For the lease option I was told it would be $2.02 and instead of drilling down what this number meant I just kept listening.