Would you buy if offered Battery Bank?

[einsvanian]

The battery technology is way before Musk. It was during the time when AC and DC were being considered as the primary source.

[einsvanian]

Let's see if you can do that this time. For example, you don't understand how MPPT charge controllers work; that will be important if you are planning to try to sell power storage systems for solar power installations. If you can learn about that, it will help you with your efforts.

I already know how MPPT works; I use it on the 6400ah battery banks at work. It is just one way to charge batteries. I use a much smarter way.

[einsvanian]

Actually Sunking probably has more field and hands on experience then most engineers maybe me included. I only have about 40 years of engineering and maybe 25 of that in the field.

Still you have to understand your claims concerning this revolutionary battery may be hard to swallow since people like Musk dropped it as well as battery companies like A 123 battery (one of many) went out of business.

Well, the way he posts makes me think he is some wet-behind-the-ear 20 year old graduate or a stuck up engineer who needs to retire his degree.

If he does have the knowledge and experience as you say then he is being senile and picking fights for amusement; then he got the best of me.

If I provided the plans to any engineer I guarantee they would stamp it. I guarantee both of you would sign off on it as well. You both would also agree that the batteries I use would go at least 15 years if not 20 once you look into the design and chemistry make up.

You would also agree: climate-controlled storage box with a "Void Warranty if Broken" would help prolong battery banks and equipment. You would also agree that discharging each battery in the bank at less than 1amp each would also prolong them and discharging them by only 20% of capacity would do the same. Though the batteries I am using can be drained down to 20% capacity and have no effect on performance and in all reality doing this actually prolongs the batteries.

[jflorey2]

No offense to other engineers; I worked with some great engineers and we learned a lot together.

Let's see if you can do that this time. For example, you don't understand how MPPT charge controllers work; that will be important if you are planning to try to sell power storage systems for solar power installations. If you can learn about that, it will help you with your efforts.

[SunEagle]

Sunking, I am sorry you feel that way. News flash your MSEE, PE are pieces of paper as well.

I've worked with people like you and I swear there were times I wanted to short circuit your pencil sharpener and turn your graphite into a conductor, Pencil Pusher.

I've worked on designs people like you pushed through to technicians like me and I sent back with several corrections. I've got into battles when I wouldn't sign off on their designs and I watched them throw tantrums and outbursts like little toddlers. I am really leaning towards you being an Engineer who thinks his **** doesn't stink and that all his designs are feasible and get but hurt when they are not and then throw tantrums when the tech says your crap doesn't work!

You think you sit high and mighty on your degree and think you are talking down to others but instead you are bringing others down to your level. Your experience, personality, and childish ways are sub par compared to all of the members on this thread. Your degrees don't mean crap to me just by the way you act.

Sorry Moderator: I tried to hold my tongue. I hate pencil pushers like Sunking. No offense to other engineers; I worked with some great engineers and we learned a lot together. I've worked with engineers like Sunking and I always put them in their spot; without technicians like me their designs are crap.

Actually Sunking probably has more field and hands on experience then most engineers maybe me included. I only have about 40 years of engineering and maybe 25 of that in the field.

Still you have to understand your claims concerning this revolutionary battery may be hard to swallow since people like Musk dropped it as well as battery companies like A 123 battery (one of many) went out of business.

[einsvanian]

See you admitted you are a fake. Your so called certification is not worth the paper it is printed on.

See that Dan?

Sunking, I am sorry you feel that way. News flash your MSEE, PE are pieces of paper as well.

I've worked with people like you and I swear there were times I wanted to short circuit your pencil sharpener and turn your graphite into a conductor, Pencil Pusher.

I've worked on designs people like you pushed through to technicians like me and I sent back with several corrections. I've got into battles when I wouldn't sign off on their designs and I watched them throw tantrums and outbursts like little toddlers. I am really leaning towards you being an Engineer who thinks his **** doesn't stink and that all his designs are feasible and get but hurt when they are not and then throw tantrums when the tech says your crap doesn't work!

You think you sit high and mighty on your degree and think you are talking down to others but instead you are bringing others down to your level. Your experience, personality, and childish ways are sub par compared to all of the members on this thread. Your degrees don't mean crap to me just by the way you act.

Sorry Moderator: I tried to hold my tongue. I hate pencil pushers like Sunking. No offense to other engineers; I worked with some great engineers and we learned a lot together. I've worked with engineers like Sunking and I always put them in their spot; without technicians like me their designs are crap.

[DanKegel]

So... the list of 'california certified electricians' from the state is not acceptable evidence that there is such a thing as a certified electrician?

Remember, I'm only objecting to your statement that there is no such thing.

[Sunking]

As a certified electrician I can get my California Contracting License just by taking the test and paying the fees.

See you admitted you are a fake. Your so called certification is not worth the paper it is printed on.

See that Dan?

[Sunking]

To all, please keep all insults to yourself. I would really appreciate that.

Blow it out your arse. You are a phonie and a liar.

[Sunking]

The next time I post something inaccurate, please let me know what the error is. I'm very interested in truth and accuracy, and in showing sources. .

Hogwash Dan, you have no concern for facts. That is what you got beat up as a kid and beaten up here.

[einsvanian]

I forgot to mention what ever your batteries rating is and amp-hours: for a 200ah @ C/100: take 200 divide by 100 gives 2amps per hour is recommended for these batteries. If you drain them by anything higher than 2 amps per hour you decrease the C/** rating.

C/5, C/10, C/15, C/20, and C/100 states what amps they drain their batteries during testing by taking amp-hours and dividing it by the 5, 10, 15, 20, 24, or 100.

Example: a 265ah battery @ C/100 is a 229ah battery @ C/24: Deka Solar Batteries. Manufacturers use the higher rating to get the higher amp hours. The higher they go the less amperage they used to drain their batteries during their testing phase. This is a sales technique they use to sell their batteries to customers. I use the C/20 as standards for my systems.

[einsvanian]

So, I'm off grid, have daily consumption of about 12KWh summer and 9KWh in winter. Currently using a 800Ah 48V bank with thousands of $$ in 48V gear.
I have 5KW of PV, and usually have been in float for a hour or more if it's a sunny day. Do you know of another battery bank I should be using ?

And I question your statement that UL is not required. AFIK, electrical gear connected to household electric system needs UL cert to meet homeowners insurance requirements, and most city codes also require UL cert. How do you comply with that ?

With the information provided it is very hard to figure out if your system is properly sized. It sounds like it is.
Keep in mind, earlier posted, I used a 600ah battery bank which powered my house for up to 6 hours total at night. That is because I use about 1.5kw to 2.5kw per hour. When we sleep we use about 500watt total; 1kw when my RV is plugged in.

If you are not losing power in the middle of the night the 800ah is sized to handle all night but at what level of capacity is it being drained to? Going to a higher amp-hour bank decreases how much you drain them per night. Increasing the amp-hour size will decrease the amps drained from your bank prolonging the life of the battery bank. Rephrase: it is better to drain a 75ah battery by 1 amp per hour instead of 3.75amps per hour.

Example: take a 75ah battery with C/20 discharge rate: gives you 3.75amps per hour for 20 hours until the battery is dead. So, with that said you want to only drain your battery bank by 20% of its capacity. 20% of a 75ah battery is 15amps total which drawing 3.75amps per hour gives you 4 hours of runtime. My design is to provide more batteries for larger battery banks at the same cost as leading competitors.

The equipment used in my system comply by being UL listed. Mostly everything now days is UL listed. Lightbulbs, inverters, charge controllers, etc. etc.

[einsvanian]

To add: UL listing is something I have looked into but it is not required. The requirements are to meet NEC standards to include the local standards (now some standards require UL to be listed but most do not).
Most of the equipment I am using are UL listed so It is being met but not with the complete system.

I understand if I am wrong or I mistyped or explained something incorrectly; I am not perfect; correct me but please don't use insults to do so.

[einsvanian]

To all, please keep all insults to yourself. I would really appreciate that.

I would like to share the chemistry but then that gives up my proprietary design. The batteries do exist and are manufactured at least 1000 per month. I plan to double that if not triple if there is a market for battery banks. As of right now the batteries cost $250 each but I am working with the manufacturer to drop down to $150 each battery. If I can't prove there is a market then I can't convince the manufacturer that I would be buying at least 2000 batteries per month.

I can say it is neither: lithium, iron, or phosphorous. It is a basic design created by Mr. Tesla himself several years ago. Remember: Tesla now days is using lithium due to weight limitations in his vehicles.

I understand that 15 years has not been proven by any known entity but I am using my experience and knowledge to offer 15 years. I have no doubt that these batteries will last 15 years or more. It requires a lot of attention in how to prolong the life of a battery and how to properly SIZE the battery bank! That is what I am offering with the design of the battery banks I plan to sell.

As a certified electrician I can get my California Contracting License just by taking the test and paying the fees. I would not have to attend a school for my license due to my background. You are right I can't just commercially install with my certifications; they are just paper trophies. I would have to be insured/bonded and authorized as a contractor in the state of California before installing anything. I can non-commercially install without license but California puts a limit to how much I can charge: if I remember right, anything over $500 in a year requires license. Which selling and installing for $10k is over that. I haven't decided yet if I want to install them; in the beginning my plans was to build and sell only but I am considering installing them to so that I can make sure they are properly sized and installed to my specifications. I do know contractors and engineers that I can offer partnership if needed. We all know that some installers cut corners; this is why I am highly considering installing them or give out authorization to specific installers.

The battery banks I plan to sell would come already built inside a storage box and have external connectors to connect to: house, solar arrays, and grid. The battery banks contain: batteries, charge controllers, and inverter/chargers to include all the cables and connectors. The storage box is climate controlled to keep batteries and electronic equipment at their suggested manufacturer's operating temperature. this would help in prolonging their lifespan. This also allows the battery bank to be installed outside. Depending on the size of the battery bank the smallestg dimensions will be 54 cubic feet 3'x3'x6' and larger.

I plan to offer at least a $3.6 million dollar contract to the battery manufacturer and hopefully this will give them an incentive to look into offering a longer warranty and lower the costs. Even if they don't budge on warranty I will still offer a 15 year warranty to my customers.

[DanKegel]

I simply wish you'd knock off the B.S. and also stop with the links to lame fluff

I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific than that. Next time you see me posting something inaccurate, I'll cheerfully accept corrections. Until then, I'll continue to ignore ad-hominem attacks.

Also: I get people mixed up, so it might have been somebody else that objected to me sounding too much like an expert.