Diaphragm well pumps and delivery

[Ujonadin]

Diaphragm pumps are positive displacement pumps. Most are inline pumps but the ones for Wells are submersible. The neemo and shurflo 9300 are the only 2 i really know of. They have identical specs it seems. Both are advertised as being able to pump 240ft of head. I will likely put it at around160ft. The memo is supposed to use about 90w of dc and produce 1.3gpm at that head and is only 240$.
I'm trying to find the most efficient way to get the large quantity of water i need. There has to be a better diaphragm pump.

[bwkemp]

Removing the pressure tank will not change the flow at all. It's only job is to give the system a cushion between when the pump turns on at say 30 psi and off at say 50 psi. The major reason it is there is so the pump doesn't have to turn on/off every time you use a small amount of water.

Are you just dumping this well into a tank (cistern) and then pumping out of it again? If so just leave the tank/switch and you can install a timer with 30 min on / 30 min off (or whatever you choose). Put this timer before the pressure switch (if you put it after the clock won't work when the system is pressured up and shut off.

You could remove the tank/switch IF you just dump into the tank without a float that shuts it off the water when it gets full. (the extra water runs over out onto the ground)

If it has a float that shuts the water off when it gets full you HAVE TO leave the pressure tank/ switch.


Another option instead of a switch that turns the pump power on/off is a sprinkler type timer & valve (battery powered like you can screw onto a hydrant or 110 volt like you use for underground sprinkler systems) that turns the water on/off going into the tank at say 30 min intervals. The advantage to this would be the rest of the system would remain pressurized and usable when the tank isn't filling. The disadvantage is it would be a little less efficient because every time the switch/valve turned off the pump would have to build some extra pressure to fill the pressure tank and shut the pressure switch off.

A 1/2 hp submersible pump is as small as you are going to find in common 115/220 volt pumps. I would use the one you have.

I have no experience in fracking wells or the geology where you are. (where are you?) You would have to talk to someone local to see how to get your well production better. If you can get by on what you have I'm sure it would be cheaper.

Hope this helps and wasn't too confusing.

Brian

[Yuba]

Unfortunately well places haven't been much help. The well RECOVERS at 2.7gpm. When it is full I get much more. During my well test last year I got 8gpm for the first half hour of the test. It takes about an hour or longer to get down to 2.7gpm. But whatever gpm it is pumping, it still uses 800w.
That's why I am thinking about putting it on a timer. Pump for 30 minutes. Let the well fill for 30 minutes. Pump for 30 min. If I am only pumping when the well is full, would removing the pressure tank increase flow?

[Mike90250]

You better talk to a Well guy. Taking off a pressure tank should have no effect on a well's production. If the ground strata only allows 2.7gpm - you need to Frack it to get any more.

[Yuba]

I have a 800w 120v 1/2 hp pump in there now. Well is only 180 ft deep. I have pressure to spare and am using a pressure tank. I can only get 2.7gpm so 800w just doesn't seem worth it.
I'm wondering if it would make the most sense if i kept the existing ac pump. Took off the pressure tank and switch. Put a timer on the pump so it's only pumping when my well is full so im getting more then 2.7 gpm.
Do you think I would get more flow if i removed the pressure tank?
I really want to ditch the tank and get a smaller pump, but I just don't know of ac pumps less then 1/2 hp that use less then 800w ac.

[Mike90250]

Does anyone know of any efficient inexpensive ac pumps for the deeper well? I don't care about soft starting.

Go to your local well / pump supply house. Tell them you want a pump for ____ feet down, and ____ psi on top. At ____ GPM You want 240V 3 wire (3 wire=easier start and 240 needed to keep voltage up with the long deep hole of 300')
The standard pumps are the cheapest and easiest to locate. pump and controller box should be <$600. power cable, 300' of 10 or 12ga is going to be pricey. Should be doable under 1 hp unless you really need a lot of water.

[Yuba]

I could get more solar. I don't mind that. I probably will soon anyway. I don't mind burning a little diesel either to charge. The problem is my batteries are getting old. They are rented used forklift batteries and they need replacements. I am not ready to spend 10k on batteries right now. They could easily handle all night pumping with 91w of dc though.

My other well that has the grundfos is 30 ft shallower. It's an sqflex helical 3". Few solar panels. The issue with that well is likely not the pump and it can't be put lower. It pumps for a minute and then stops. I'm assuming to avoid running dry.

Maybe the diaphragm pump and battery bank would be better suited for the shallow well, and I need something that can produce more but still efficient in the deep well.
Does anyone know of any efficient inexpensive ac pumps for the deeper well? I don't care about soft starting. I have 7kw of inverters.

[bwkemp]

Because you have a battery bank at your house I would agree it wouldn't be a huge step up to go with the grondfos. I'm also wouldn't think it would be worth it to change out to a diaphragm pump running off of batteries. Could you add more solar panels to charge the batteries and get more bang for you buck? It is a shame your well won't produce more gpm so you could just pump during sunshine hours, but you deal with what is available under your ground.

Do you have the specifics of the grundfos pump you currently have (what are you powering it with?) just trying to figure out why it wouldn't be producing more.

[Yuba]

The wells and their jobs are seperate. The one that has the sqflex is not at the house and does not have a real solar system or batteries. Just pumps when the sun shines. It's a terrible set-up. Hardly puts out any water. Maybe 300 gallons a day. That one is only 150ft.
I don't know if the sq is really that much more efficient then a regular ac 1/2 hp pump. I guess it does have inverter loss but that's not really that much. I know they are somewhat vfd's and they use less power when not working at full tilt unlike the ac pump that is 800w all the time. But if I put the ac pump on a timer that lets it fill up before it pumps and am getting 5gpm I just am not sure if the grundfos is much better.

[bwkemp]

If you are worried about efficiency I would run them off solar direct instead of going through batteries. If you have a storage tank at the surface it should work fine. You could run them off batteries when the tank get below a certain level (automatically with some clever switches). It depends a lot on water level. Do you have two wells tied together then or just one?

[Yuba]

My house is solar also. No power poles out here. I have a diesel backup gen. It runs when it has to with auto start. I don't know what the level is until I pull it up. The reason I want to go diaphragm is the low power usage per gallon.
have a grundfos sq flex in a different well but it uses allot of power. Bit this week is low yielding and Pumping the hours I have to adds up. From what I hear diaphragm pumps are less reliable and will fail sooner but they just use less power. It's worth pulling up and replacing for the low power usage.

[bwkemp]

How big of storage tanks do you have that you pump out of? Do you have a house ran off solar too? Does it pump out of them for both the house and irrigation? Do you have a generator for backup power? If so how often do you run it? What do you think the water level is in your well?

I would recommend setting whatever pump you get close to the bottom so you have more of a supply in the well casing. Some wells get worse over time so it is easier to put it all the way down to begin with (or as deep as the pump is able to produce from). The only disadvantage from going all the way down is the cost of pipe and wire.


I don't have much experience with the diaphragm pumps but most of it has been bad. I would recommend going to a grundfos or lorentz pump if you can afford it.

Brian

[J.P.M.]

Isn't a diaphragm pump, a suction lift pump? Can you put one down a well hole ? Suction only works for about 20' down, then you reach the physical limits of suction,

No, it is not.

[Wy_White_Wolf]

Isn't a diaphragm pump, a suction lift pump? Can you put one down a well hole ? Suction only works for about 20' down, then you reach the physical limits of suction,

No. Shurflo 9300 series are diaphragm pumps.

I do run a Shurflo 9300 solar direct on my well. Do you need that kind of production year round or just through the summer? Mine will fill a 300 gallon stock tank in about 2 hours and could possibly pump 1200 gallons in a day. It possibly could do more if we put the solar panel on a tracker. Cistern is 350 gallons with a float switch so it never has to pump that much.

Well is 185' deep with a static level of 66' and 3 gpm production rating. The 3 gpm was in the late fall when we had it drilled so I think it might be higher in the spring or summer.

WWW

[Yuba]

Diaphragm pumps are positive displacement pumps. Most are inline pumps but the ones for Wells are submersible. The neemo and shurflo 9300 are the only 2 i really know of. They have identical specs it seems. Both are advertised as being able to pump 240ft of head. I will likely put it at around160ft. The memo is supposed to use about 90w of dc and produce 1.3gpm at that head and is only 240$.
I'm trying to find the most efficient way to get the large quantity of water i need. There has to be a better diaphragm pump.