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Brand new Yamaha EF6300iSDE instant overload (with video)

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  • Brand new Yamaha EF6300iSDE instant overload (with video)

    **Apologies in advance for the dumb question(s) -- I am new to the off-grid home**

    We have an old Yamaha EF4500iSE that we connect to our inverter (Trace Engineering SW4024) via 3-prong 120V 30A socket in order to charge the batteries that power our house (we live off grid). The unit is approaching the 5000 hour mark so we picked up a brand new slightly more powerful [B]EF6300[/B] and planned on keeping the EF4500 as a spare.

    When I connect the inverter to the EF4500 there's a 60 second "handshake" period where nothing happens & no load is put on the generator. After 60 seconds the inverter makes a single mechanical click sound, the light on the inverter goes from flashing to solid, & then power starts being fed to the batteries (generator accepts load -- [B]about 6 - 7 bars on the EF4500[/B]).

    However, when I plug into the EF6300 it goes into overload pretty much right away as seen in this video:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/ao159PmbRXqCwjHU9

    I tried with the 'econo mode' in either the off or on position but it does not help.
    I also tried the voltage select switch in either position (120V or 120/240V) but it also made no difference.

    I hauled out an even older 4000W generator (some no name thing but too loud to use) & it connects to the inverter & charges the batteries without issue -- just like our aging EF4500.

    Any idea why the 6300 is overloading?
    Last edited by ron_jeremy; 07-13-2018, 06:23 PM.

  • #2
    Think I know exactly why, and you might feel a little dumb if I am correct.

    Real simple set the Voltage Selector Switch on the 6300 to [B]120 Volt[/B]. Right now you have it set to [B]120/240[/B] which limits current to 20 amps per Leg or 20 amps x 120 volts = 2400 watts, or with both 120 legs 4800 watts at 240 volts (which you do not use). When you switch to 120 volts will make it 40 amps at 120 volts (4800 watts = 120 volts x 40 amps).

    Or buy a 240 battery charger to get the full power usage out of the new genny.
    Last edited by Sunking; 07-13-2018, 07:23 PM.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Sunking,

      Thx for offering to help.

      I had the voltage selector set to 120V per the video and tried both settings as stated in my original post. I really don't know what to make of this situation. Returning the generator is going to be a major pain in the butt.

      Comment


      • #4
        Try loading the generator with something else, electric kettle or two?, check the wattage on the kettle. try to laod it up to 4000w or more

        this will determine if the generator is working ok and tell you if you have a faulty generator or a problem with the generator to charger compatibility.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Bala,

          I grabbed an electric drill & rewired it with the same L5-30R connector; it works just fine. I I unplugged it and plugged in the inverter and boom -- the overload light lit up the moment I insert it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ron_jeremy View Post
            Hi Bala,

            I grabbed an electric drill & rewired it with the same L5-30R connector; it works just fine. I I unplugged it and plugged in the inverter and boom -- the overload light lit up the moment I insert it.
            Good test and good work.

            Bad news is you have to replace genny. Good chance from the sounds of it the GFCI circuit is faulty or miss wired. Easy fix if that is what it is wrong for the manufacture to fix or qualified sparky rep. Either way means a return for you. Besure to tell the rep/manufacture the test you did as that wil tell them the genny is the problem and not operator error. Tells them the GFCI is likely at fault.

            Good luck.
            Last edited by Sunking; 07-13-2018, 08:50 PM.
            MSEE, PE

            Comment


            • #7
              What I don't understand is why the unit goes into instant overload when the inverter doesn't even recognize the connection. When I plug in any other generator the inverter goes through a 60 second handshake process then clicks over & accepts load. This unit instantly trips on overload. Actually, maybe it's overspeed (not overload) because it revs up really fast?

              Comment


              • #8
                I wouldnt worry to much about trying to work out why it is doing what it is.

                I would think the 60 second handshake as you call it will require the inverter to sense generator Volts and Hzs so it is happy play with it, the generator is sensing a load and going out of control.

                Overload shutdown could mean overspeed, over load under speed. etc etc. it could just be a generic fault shutdown.

                The drill, if in Australia would be double insulated, the earth is not used. The inverter would have earth, so as Sunking said brings the the GFI / RCD type safety systems that may be built into the generator.

                I wouldnt keep trying stuff on the generator it may damage electrical items.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Inverter Generator ?
                  Trace (as in years and years old?)
                  old generator set was a spinning alternator with miles of copper wire?

                  Likely the Trace throws a hard load onto the generator, which being a "modern" inverter generator, has no grace - the electronics are overloaded or not. Just a few sec of overload as the inverter is making up it's mind and instantaneously loading down the generator, it faults.

                  More modern gear slowly ramps up it's loading on generators so governor can keep up.
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                    Inverter Generator ?
                    Yes, as stated model EF6300iSDE above.
                    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                    Trace (as in years and years old?)
                    Works perfectly, and no issues with 2 other generators.
                    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                    old generator set was a spinning alternator with miles of copper wire?
                    No idea what you're saying here. Old (current) generator is EF4500iSE inverter type.

                    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                    Likely the Trace throws a hard load onto the generator, which being a "modern" inverter generator, has no grace - the electronics are overloaded or not. Just a few sec of overload as the inverter is making up it's mind and instantaneously loading down the generator, it faults.

                    More modern gear slowly ramps up it's loading on generators so governor can keep up.
                    No idea what you're saying here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think what Mike is getting at many of the new so called Generator/Inverters made today do not work like a generator. They use a 3-phase Alternator much like in your car that generates DC power, and then uses an Inverter to convert to AC power. Issue is Electronic Inverters are not as Robust as a Generator to supply non linear and inductive loads. A Battery Charge especially newer Switch Mode types are highly non-linear and Inverters do not play well with non-linear and Inductive loads.

                      I am not saying that is what is happening to you, and I doubt it is. If you could not run a small drill motor on such a large genny means you have a genny problem that needs fixed. In your case of being new, replaced under warranty.

                      There is another quick test you can do if you have a good ole fashion electric iron, electric hot water heater, toaster oven, or a blow dryer. All those items are pretty much passive resistivity loads. In other words only make HEAT but uses a lot of power. If you rnewer larger genny cannot power such a device, you and the manufacture both know the genny is not working as it should even if it is an Inverter Generator
                      Last edited by Sunking; 07-14-2018, 07:36 PM.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thx for clarifying. The generator is at the local Yamaha dealer for diagnosis. I also gave them a link to this thread for further reference. Will keep you posted.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                          If you could not run a small drill motor on such a large genny means you have a genny problem that needs fixed.
                          By the way, the drill worked just fine as stated in my above post. The overload only happens when I plug in the inverter. Hopefully, the dealer will reply with some good news.
                          Last edited by ron_jeremy; 07-16-2018, 12:33 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I think a lot depends on the entire system. This morning I connected an old, genuine honda eu2000i to my high quality autotransformer, spun it up, inverter qualified it, switched all house loads to the generator @ 240V and then started charging the battery @ 5A. . This was in prep for my electrolyte change out at the end of month, when battery will be offline for a week.
                            I'd had doubts as everyone else stated the eu2000 will not power a transformer, but it did. 120V input, 240 out to the inverter.
                            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Over all this feels,like a quality product. You can see the good design everywhere. One thing that will annoy you is the oil filler which requires a funnel with a long flexible snout, and the way you have to add oil till it spill down the side of the crank case. I'm sure this keeps the machine as small as possible, but just seems out of place on a $4,000 engine!

                              As others have noted, it's [I][COLOR=#000000]very quiet[/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] for a generator[/COLOR][/I]. That being said, it is a generator and your not going to wonder if the thing is turned on or anything like that. But for a generator it is pretty quiet.
                              Last edited by JohnyWalter; 08-01-2018, 07:50 AM.

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