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  • Lighting small houses



    Rather disappointed that another thread is closed and i cant answer. Lets discuss lighting system for small houses dc vs ac.
    Sunking: At 12 volts, the maximum amount of 10 watt lights you can install on a single circuit is 11 lights or 110 watts. But there is a catch and a big one. All those lights have to be no greater than 2 feet from the source (aka battery).

    OTOH same exact wire at 120 volts, the maximum amount of 10 watt lights you can install on a single circuit is 100 lights or 1200 watts, that can be up to 50 feet away from the source, and is more efficient.
    ..

    Who needs 1200watts of lighting or 110watts in an offgrid house of +/- 32m2 must be crazy, especially if we r discussing about efficiency and savings. 1w per m2 is more than enough and with different spaces is then less than 32watts lighting needed.

    Perhaps mods can pay attention to those who do not read thoroughly before answeri
    ng.




  • #2
    Here we go again.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by fivewin View Post

      Rather disappointed that another thread is closed and i cant answer. Lets discuss lighting system for small houses dc vs ac.
      Sunking: At 12 volts, the maximum amount of 10 watt lights you can install on a single circuit is 11 lights or 110 watts. But there is a catch and a big one. All those lights have to be no greater than 2 feet from the source (aka battery).

      OTOH same exact wire at 120 volts, the maximum amount of 10 watt lights you can install on a single circuit is 100 lights or 1200 watts, that can be up to 50 feet away from the source, and is more efficient.
      ..

      Who needs 1200watts of lighting or 110watts in an offgrid house of +/- 32m2 must be crazy, especially if we r discussing about efficiency and savings. 1w per m2 is more than enough and with different spaces is then less than 32watts lighting needed.

      Perhaps mods can pay attention to those who do not read thoroughly before answeri
      ng.


      I agree that if the home is small along with the electrical wiring runs you could get away with very low wattage DC LED lights. You pretty much described my Class A RV which is small (36 foot in length with 2 slide outs) and runs just about all of the small equipment off the coach batteries. Although I still have a DC to AC inverter to run every day appliances like my coffee maker and Air conditioners.

      But please stop trying to convince us that using DC appliances is more efficient than AC. You can't change physics or Ohm's Law no matter what you believe.

      Comment


      • #4
        Close the thread. Cheese and Rice, 1 watt/M^2 does not even meet poverty levels. International building codes require a minimum 100 VA/ M^2. US minimum is 180 VA/M^2 which is 180 time more than 1 VA/M^2. Those minimums are set so you do not freeze to death, go blind from reading in the dark, and to prevent mushrooms from growing in corners of a dirt floor.

        What chit hole country do you live in? Po Dunk?
        Last edited by Sunking; 05-15-2018, 05:45 PM.
        MSEE, PE

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        • #5
          1 watt lighting per m2 with sufficient lumens im talking about.

          Tiny houses are becoming more popular in the west, see example of the pict.

          Such a house without inverter can also be effective and efficient @12 volt if the total max draw is only 12amps when all the loads are running, for example:
          Brushess pump 19watt dc powered 1 hour during peak hours only also charging gadgets
          ​​​​​
          evening:
          Some lights max 30watts
          Led tv @dc 12v 25watt or less
          1 fan 10w
          No fridge, or even a peltier for only during the day.

          In an area with no electricity and the district government distributed a 6Wp system for some houses for free you know what they did? They prefer to stay in the dark or with unhealthy oil lamps and they more use it for charging their mobile phone. So, communication with the outside world is what they prefer. Some can aford a motorbyke and is used to 12v and is it not easy and wonderful and if you can give them a 12volt system without an inverter for lights, tv and fan
          The small system can be more efficient without an inverter. Im in process of building an extra unit on my premises and want to give an example for them. Once again, pls do not compare with american (living) standards.
          Attached Files

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          • #6
            About dc vs ac for houses. Im still not convinced that ac is more efficient. Not only me but others beleive that dc for residential purposes can be a lot more efficient.

            Besides lighting there would have to be some bigger wires to carry the loads needed to run a fridge or an air conditioner. But even they can be more efficient running on DC, thanks to Variable Frequency Drives or VFDs.

            There is also the new high-power USB Power Delivery standard 4.0, which can pump out 100 watts. All those bricks and power cables disappear as you plug in your devices and get power and data. It could be stuck on the wall like tape and just painted over.

            Once more: sooner or later kiss goodbye to awg's inspite of physics which no one can change
            Last edited by fivewin; 05-16-2018, 06:48 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fivewin View Post
              About dc vs ac for houses. Im still not convinced that ac is more efficient. Not only me but others beleive that dc for residential purposes can be a lot more efficient.

              Besides lighting there would have to be some bigger wires to carry the loads needed to run a fridge or an air conditioner. But even they can be more efficient running on DC, thanks to Variable Frequency Drives or VFDs.

              There is also the new high-power USB Power Delivery standard 4.0, which can pump out 100 watts. All those bricks and power cables disappear as you plug in your devices and get power and data. It could be stuck on the wall like tape and just painted over.

              Once more: sooner or later kiss goodbye to awg's inspite of physics which no one can change
              Look fivewin. I understand your desire to provide information to those that live in small houses but please stop posting incorrect info.

              A VFD is used on AC motors which allows you to vary the speed by varying the Frequency. They will not work on DC motors.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fivewin View Post

                Besides lighting there would have to be some bigger wires to carry the loads needed to run a fridge or an air conditioner. But even they can be more efficient running on DC, thanks to Variable Frequency Drives or VFDs.

                There is also the new high-power USB Power Delivery standard 4.0, which can pump out 100 watts. All those bricks and power cables disappear as you plug in your devices and get power and data. It could be stuck on the wall like tape and just painted over.
                Fivewin stop it, you are just embarrassing yourself and proving you have absolutely no clue WTF you are are talking about or even capable of learning anything.

                VFD = Variable Frequency Drive and is used on AC motors

                USB 4.0 Does not exist. When and if it is released will be limited to the exact same 10 watts maximum power 5 volts @ 2 amps as USB 3.1. Only thing 4.0 is reported to do (dreamed about) is raise data rates to to 10,000 Mbps.

                USB C aka Thunderbolt 3 can do 100 watts smart guy because they raised the voltage from 5 volts to 20 volts @ 4 amps. Takes a much larger cable and plug to handle the extra current.

                So just stop and quit embarrassing yourself. You just keep proving you are uneducated and have no clue what you are talking about and doing. People are laughing at you.
                Last edited by Sunking; 05-16-2018, 11:35 AM.
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sunking View Post

                  Fivewin stop it, you are just embarrassing yourself and proving you have absolutely no clue WTF you are are talking about or even capable of learning anything.

                  VFD = Variable Frequency Drive and is used on AC motors

                  USB 4.0 Does not exist. When and if it is released will be limited to the exact same 10 watts maximum power 5 volts @ 2 amps as USB 3.1. Only thing 4.0 is reported to do (dreamed about) is raise data rates to to 10,000 Mbps.

                  USB C aka Thunderbolt 3 can do 100 watts smart guy because they raised the voltage from 5 volts to 20 volts @ 4 amps. Takes a much larger cable and plug to handle the extra current.

                  So just stop and quit embarrassing yourself. You just keep proving you are uneducated and have no clue what you are talking about and doing. People are laughing at you.
                  As I wrote and repeat, here we go again.

                  Anyone ever hear of the term "shunning"?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This must then be hoax : http://www.usb.org/developers/powerdelivery/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      All the time refering to ac motors, im talking about dc power wich can run directly from your battery bank without an inverter as your r used in a solar system and connect this inverter to the battery to get ac power. Wether brusless motors are in fact ac they r known as dc brushless motors cause they can run directly on solar or battery, like my brushless pump which i year in year out already use only with 7Ah battery and 20Wp panel and i achieve my goals. Why using ac power in my case and in miliion other cases?

                      About vfd's,
                      As motor-operated loads become increasingly controlled through VFDs very little will remain in a house that needs ac power This statement is misleading and in my opinion FALSE.
                      Last edited by SunEagle; 05-17-2018, 09:44 AM.

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                      • #12


                        I quoted the electric power research institute:
                        Use of VFDs is on the rise, since controlling the speed of the motor to match demand can not only save energy but also optimize function. For example, being able to fine tune the motor speed of an air conditioner, and thus functions such as fan speed and air flow, can make room temperatures and conditions more comfortable. As motor-operated loads become increasingly controlled through VFDs through VFDs etc..etc

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                        • #13
                          Also,

                          The Emerge Alliance claims that running DC can cut electricity use by 20 percent, simply because everything is running native, without those energy-sucking wall-warts and rectifiers. Add the up-front savings of cheaper LED bulbs and the cost of wiring the home, and the savings get much bigger. ​​​​​​​

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For my own and other situations , small non aircon houses, no needed electric heating appliances, im convinced that dc power only is more efficient. Others are of opinion that average homes in the west can also be better of on dc only. Others are of the opinion that you still need ac.

                            Respect each others and we all live in harmony

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fivewin View Post

                              I quoted the electric power research institute:
                              Use of VFDs is on the rise, since controlling the speed of the motor to match demand can not only save energy but also optimize function. For example, being able to fine tune the motor speed of an air conditioner, and thus functions such as fan speed and air flow, can make room temperatures and conditions more comfortable. As motor-operated loads become increasingly controlled through VFDs through VFDs etc..etc
                              VFD's vary the Frequency of the 60hz AC voltage. They do not work on DC powered loads. DC powered loads can change speed if you vary the Voltage or "Field" not the Frequency.

                              I hope that makes it clear to you.

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