caption of the short bus needs water heater help

[charles2,david000k]

I did not see a section for this so I figured I would post it here.



OK so basicly I bought this water heater conversion kit and have NO ideal how it works or how to hook it up no direction and the guy on ebay is gone.

This is what they sent me 2 SES heating elements rated at 24V and 600 watts and a thermostat marked NGT 43 4958 L49 2A14W
I suspect the 2A14W stands for 2 Amps at 14W I don't understand how this would even work. The only information I got from the distributor before they disappeared is it should run from a dump load but I dont have a dumload I run solar.

[charles2,david000k]

A diagram, wire size, fuse size and fuse position would be great. From the battery to the heater 40 feet with ups down twist and turns.

[inetdog]

I did not see a section for this so I figured I would post it here.



OK so basicly I bought this water heater conversion kit and have NO ideal how it works or how to hook it up no direction and the guy on ebay is gone.

This is what they sent me 2 SES heating elements rated at 24V and 600 watts and a thermostat marked NGT 43 4958 L49 2A14W
I suspect the 2A14W stands for 2 Amps at 14W I don't understand how this would even work. The only information I got from the distributor before they disappeared is it should run from a dump load but I dont have a dumload I run solar.

1. You bought the kit without knowing what you were getting and possibly without knowing what you really wanted to do with it.
2. You do not have the necessary knowledge to be able to hook it up safely once you figure out what you want.
3. You have shown an inability to understand fairly clear directions given in other threads on this forum. Therefore
4. I am not going to expose both of us to risk by trying to explain how to wire your pig in a poke.

That said, I will make a couple of observations:

A. Each 24V 600W heating elements will draw a nominal 25A (DC). Two elements in parallel will draw 50A. You do have a 24V battery system, I hope?
B. The switch, with specifications here: http://www.ngtcontrols.com/spec-3-type43.htm, is rated for only 13A and only AC. The 2A14W has nothing to do with Amps and Watts. The switch is not intended to be a thermostat which is operated regularly, just an overtemperature limit switch (with auto reset) which operates infrequently.
C. 40 feet of wire good for 50A will probably cost you more than you paid for the conversion kit.
D. In addition to a proper thermostat (and the existing ones in the heater are probably not good for DC either) you need something to provide power to the circuit only when you have solar power to spare. That could be as simple as a mystical device called a voltage sensitive relay driving a more substantial type of relay called a contactor.

Your best bet, I think, would be to find someone local who can tutor you in basic electricity and spend some time with you figuring out just what you want to do with your solar system.

I wish you the best of luck, but I cannot help you remotely.

PS: Anywhere in the Off Grid section would probably be better than here. So I moved it.....

[charles2,david000k]

1. You bought the kit without knowing what you were getting and possibly without knowing what you really wanted to do with it.
2. You do not have the necessary knowledge to be able to hook it up safely once you figure out what you want.
3. You have shown an inability to understand fairly clear directions given in other threads on this forum. Therefore
4. I am not going to expose both of us to risk by trying to explain how to wire your pig in a poke.

That said, I will make a couple of observations:

A. Each 24V 600W heating elements will draw a nominal 25A (DC). Two elements in parallel will draw 50A. You do have a 24V battery system, I hope?
B. The switch, with specifications here: http://www.ngtcontrols.com/spec-3-type43.htm, is rated for only 13A and only AC. The 2A14W has nothing to do with Amps and Watts. The switch is not intended to be a thermostat which is operated regularly, just an overtemperature limit switch (with auto reset) which operates infrequently.
C. 40 feet of wire good for 50A will probably cost you more than you paid for the conversion kit.
D. In addition to a proper thermostat (and the existing ones in the heater are probably not good for DC either) you need something to provide power to the circuit only when you have solar power to spare. That could be as simple as a mystical device called a voltage sensitive relay driving a more substantial type of relay called a contactor.

Your best bet, I think, would be to find someone local who can tutor you in basic electricity and spend some time with you figuring out just what you want to do with your solar system.

I wish you the best of luck, but I cannot help you remotely.

PS: Anywhere in the Off Grid section would probably be better than here.

I will post there. With what you have said I am thinking just run a bridge rectifier at the water heater to go from AC to DC between the factory thermostat to new heating element. But like you said I should read up on it before attempting. As for locals well I am unsure of their ability because I already hired two of the best companies in my area and they deemed those panels bad and you guys said they are good so ya I am second guessing their abilities.

[inetdog]

I will post there. With what you have said I am thinking just run a bridge rectifier at the water heater to go from AC to DC between the factory thermostat to new heating element. But like you said I should read up on it before attempting. As for locals well I am unsure of their ability because I already hired two of the best companies in my area and they deemed those panels bad and you guys said they are good so ya I am second guessing their abilities.

Just do not try to use the 24V elements with 120 or 240V AC!!!!
Where would your 24V AC be coming from?
Once again you seem to be limited in what you can safely do by a lack of basic knowledge about electricity.

[charles2,david000k]

caption of the short bus needs water heater help

OK so basicly I bought this water heater conversion kit and have NO ideal how it works or how to hook it up no direction and the guy on ebay is gone.

This is what they sent me 2 SES heating elements rated at 24V and 600 watts and a thermostat marked NGT 43 4958 L49 2A14W
I suspect the 2A14W stands for 2 Amps at 14W I don't understand how this would even work. The only information I got from the distributor before they disappeared is it should run from a dump load but I dont have a dumload I run solar.

http://www.ngtcontrols.com/spec-3-type43.htm

http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?p...mersion-Heater

I was told by another member here that the thermostat is useless due to it is for AC only.
So I was thinking I us my standard AC from my inverter all the way up to the water heater thermostat and use a rectifier between the thermostat and DC element.

I have a 24V system. What are your thoughts?

[bcroe]

OK so basicly I bought this water heater conversion kit and have NO ideal how it works or how to hook it up no direction and the guy on ebay is gone.

This is what they sent me 2 SES heating elements rated at 24V and 600 watts and a thermostat marked NGT 43 4958 L49 2A14W
I suspect the 2A14W stands for 2 Amps at 14W I don't understand how this would even work. The only information I got from the distributor before they disappeared is it should run from a dump load but I dont have a dumload I run solar.

http://www.ngtcontrols.com/spec-3-type43.htm

http://www.sespvt.com/products.php?p...mersion-Heater

I was told by another member here that the thermostat is useless due to it is for AC only.
So I was thinking I us my standard AC from my inverter all the way up to the water heater thermostat and use a rectifier between the thermostat and DC element. I have a 24V system. What are your thoughts?

Resistance heating elements don't care if you feed them DC or AC. But switches do.
Until you can put a compete set of calculated numbers on a system design, you aren't
ready to build anything. Bruce Roe

[sensij]

The thing is, the OP already has a diversion controller. His PV array might be capable of producing more than 1200 W though, so some caution is still warranted in hooking up the elements. Some way to know that the water has been fully heated and is at risk of boiling off would be a good idea, if using the supplied thermostat is beyond the scope of knowledge.

[charles2,david000k]

What is going to have less of a power lose?

1. bridge rectifier
2. transformer
3. 40ft run of 4 AWG from bank to water heater carrying 24V @ 50A.

4 AWG is going to be a real pain to wire due to space and size of the wire I am not saying it can't be done but I would like to pull the old wire directly out the top of the water heater and run the new wire directly down the old path of the old wire to the heating elements and thermostat.

Now if I was to use a bridge rectifier or transformer I could use the wire that is already in place with out a new 40ft run across the house but there are conversion loses going from DC to AC then back to DC and would still need to change the internal wiring on the water heat.

I hate my inlaws sometimes 2 hours sleep in 72 hours makes me grumpy day and night have become one big blur. I am sorry if I missed something but I am going to bed.

[Living Large]

What is going to have less of a power lose?

1. bridge rectifier
2. transformer
3. 40ft run of 4 AWG from bank to water heater carrying 24V @ 50A.

4 AWG is going to be a real pain to wire due to space and size of the wire I am not saying it can't be done but I would like to pull the old wire directly out the top of the water heater and run the new wire directly down the old path of the old wire to the heating elements and thermostat.

Now if I was to use a bridge rectifier or transformer I could use the wire that is already in place with out a new 40ft run across the house but there are conversion loses going from DC to AC then back to DC and would still need to change the internal wiring on the water heat.

I hate my inlaws sometimes 2 hours sleep in 72 hours makes me grumpy day and night have become one big blur. I am sorry if I missed something but I am going to bed.

Caption, my Caption. You'll lose about 4% of the voltage at 50A in line loss if you go DC - but you'd better check the existing thermostat to see if it can handle 50A, assuming both elements can run simultaneously (my DWH only allows one element active at a time). Good luck with this project - I am amazed, in a word, at the thought of running a DWH from a bridge rectifier. I don't believe you will need it.

[charles2,david000k]

Caption, my Caption. You'll lose about 4% of the voltage at 50A in line loss if you go DC - but you'd better check the existing thermostat to see if it can handle 50A, assuming both elements can run simultaneously (my DWH only allows one element active at a time). Good luck with this project - I am amazed, in a word, at the thought of running a DWH from a bridge rectifier. I don't believe you will need it.

I don't think there is a way to do this is there?

[Living Large]

I don't think there is a way to do this is there?

In a separate thread, within the past hour, you posted some equipment that you have. If I read it right, you have a tremendous daily use, and sometimes use 8kwh in one hour (!). You are considering a small grid-tie system to offset your bills.

I'm not sure how this DWH project and possible conversion fits into this scenario. I don't know a lot about grid-tie, but it seems to me that with grid-tie you would want to leave the DWH as is. You could dedicate a 2kw panel to DWH only and still not make enough heat to do that one job, depending on how much HW you use.

You really need to start at square one - do an audit to figure out how much each item uses per day and reduce your current consumption as much as possible.

[charles2,david000k]

All the information I am finding keeps telling me to just disconnect the lower element and wire nut it off then hook DC directly into the factory element from dump load or battery. I don't want to die while taking a shower or peeing in the toilet.

[Living Large]

All the information I am finding keeps telling me to just disconnect the lower element and wire nut it off then hook DC directly into the factory element from dump load or battery. I don't want to die while taking a shower or peeing in the toilet.

I am not understanding what your overall goal is, and why you are focusing on the DWH. Why not just pump whatever you can back into the grid, and forget about individual loads? If you convert the DWH to 24V, then you need a dedicated energy source to run it.

Nobody wants to die peeing or taking a shower. How embarrassing.

[charles2,david000k]

I am not understanding what your overall goal is, and why you are focusing on the DWH. Why not just pump whatever you can back into the grid, and forget about individual loads? If you convert the DWH to 24V, then you need a dedicated energy source to run it.

Nobody wants to die peeing or taking a shower. How embarrassing.

My home has not been finalized yet! I passed my temp and rough-in on my own but the inspector has failed me on dumb stuff I should of passed for like my rough-in he failed me because my wires out my boxes were 12 inches instead of 6 or 7 I wanted pull room. He failed my temporary because the place the pole was set was too wet and he knew I had no say so of where that pole went the power company here does. I have a NEC hand book that goes over AC installation pretty well. another thing he wanted to pick at was I had a room with 7 outlet on one drop and the light on a separate drop and he made me bring in another drop to divide up the 7 outlet when I could of just taken the drop for the light and put 3 outlets on it and it still would have been fine. every outlet in my kitchen is gfci when only two are within 3 feet of water. The overall point though is to be able to run my stuff without AC power incase the power goes out and it does here we get freezing fog, ice storms, and power was out for a month last year two weeks the year before. This has been our warmest winter in a while. and just overall it's a 4,500 watt water heater.

I plan on running a 12AWG wire from the dump load to water heater tomorrow and seeing what happens. all else fails I loss a water heater.
I would like to buy a 2k sun grid tie inverter but no one will tell me if they perform well or not but sun grid tie is in my price range.