Confused and Seriously in Need of Help

[Bucho]

Real simple he is not using full power. Go to 500 amps of 5000 watts and those wires melt and the insulation catches fire.

I so get that, I also suspect the inverter won't do 5000 watts.

Your link shows a picture shows what looks to be 10 AWG which is rated 50 amps maximum in free air and it has a diameter of roughly .25 inches.

Looking at the closeup of the wiring to the inverter I was thinking it was 14-2 NM-B.

[inetdog]

Bucho,
Well before the fusing current, the insulation on the wire will melt or burn (which is the basis for NEC ampacity ratings, not fusing current). The disaster from losing the insulation may not be quite as immediate as exceeding the fusing current, but the eventual damage can be as bad or worse.

[Mike90250]

Sunking, I'm really confused and hoping you can help me out. I just don't get it, how'd he manage to run this: http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb#FpnoIA7 without it catching fire?

If you don't have fuses to go bad, you wont get a shutdown ?

Love that last photo, with the insulation whittled down at the charge controller, and the long bare wires.

I sure hope this was a quick "aliveness check" and not the actual install !

[SunEagle]

Check out the parallel wiring of those batteries in the picture... 4 in parallel is bad even when done well. I hope that not too much was invested in those batteries.

The wires not only look to be different in length but may also be different AWG size. Now if the inverter was only 400 watts (~ 33amps at 12 volts) then he would be safer but still would have the issue of parallel battery wiring.

[Living Large]

I think a good analogy would be the joke about the engineer who fell off the roof of a skyscraper. All the way down the people on the various floors he passed heard him yelling "So far, so good."

This cleared my mind and gave me some perspective after reading this thread. Thanks for straightening me out.

[sensij]

Check out the parallel wiring of those batteries in the picture... 4 in parallel is bad even when done well. I hope that not too much was invested in those batteries.

[Sunking]

Sunking, I'm really confused and hoping you can help me out. I just don't get it, how'd he manage to run this: http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb#FpnoIA7 without it catching fire?

Real simple he is not using full power. Go to 500 amps of 5000 watts and those wires melt and the insulation catches fire.

To run 500 amps safely requires a minimum 350 MCM cable in Free Air, and at 12 volts is only about 5 feet 1-way before you run into real power loss issues. A 350 MCM cable has a Diameter of 1 inch with Insulation Your link shows a picture shows what looks to be 10 AWG which is rated 50 amps maximum in free air and it has a diameter of roughly .25 inches.

Does running 500 amps through a 50 amp pipe sound safe, sound, and sane. Or does it sound really stupid and ignorant. FWIW a 10 AWG copper conductor has a Fusing Current of 330 amps at 10 seconds. That means it melts in 10 seconds with 330 amps flowing.

So do you want to push 500 amps through 10 AWG to test it? The person in your link with a 12 volt 5000 watt Inverter is either plain Ignorant or Stupid. Take your pick. Anyone who buys a 12 volt 5000 watt Inverter is either Stupid or Ignorant. Personally I would not go over 500 to 750 watts on a 12 volt Inverter, and that is pushing the limits of sanity.

Mod Note.
This post was flagged as being "rude". It is not being removed. It is, however - Honest. no salesmanship, no sugar coating. It's not meant to allow someone to feel good, it is pointing out a dangerous situation.

[J.P.M.]

It isn't the fall that hurts it is the sudden stop at the end.

But what a ride.

[SunEagle]

I think a good analogy would be the joke about the engineer who fell off the roof of a skyscraper. All the way down the people on the various floors he passed heard him yelling "So far, so good."

It isn't the fall that hurts it is the sudden stop at the end.

[inetdog]

He got lucky.

Running a high amperage load through small wires between the batteries and inverter will heat them and the terminations up. Do that a few times and you will loosen the terminations which can cause a spark or heat the wire insulation to the point it can catch fire.

In time he would have had a wire burn up or worse started a fire somewhere between the battery and inverter.

I think a good analogy would be the joke about the engineer who fell off the roof of a skyscraper. All the way down the people on the various floors he passed heard him yelling "So far, so good."

[SunEagle]

Sunking, I'm really confused and hoping you can help me out. I just don't get it, how'd he manage to run this: http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb#FpnoIA7 without it catching fire?

He got lucky.

Running a high amperage load through small wires between the batteries and inverter will heat them and the terminations up. Do that a few times and you will loosen the terminations which can cause a spark or heat the wire insulation to the point it can catch fire.

In time he would have had a wire burn up or worse started a fire somewhere between the battery and inverter.

[Bucho]

Sunking, I'm really confused and hoping you can help me out. I just don't get it, how'd he manage to run this: http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb#FpnoIA7 without it catching fire?

[SunEagle]

I currently live in a camper that receives about 7 hours of sunlight a day. I set up four batteries in a parallel bank and have two 100 watt solar panels in direct sun. I also have a solar charger in between the solar panels and batteries and a 5000 watt 10000 peak inverter.

Currently I am trying to run AT LEAST my camper air conditioner, an iphone charger and a laptop charger; as well as my fridge.

4 batteries = 400 AH
2 solar panels = 200 Watts

Air Conditioner uses 20 Amps to start and 16 to run (Which I only need for 4 hours a day.)
Fridge takes 25 Amps for 6 hours a day.
Laptop charger takes 4 amps for 8 hours.
Iphone charger takes 3 amps for 8 hours.

Now...my current problem is the fact that when I turn off AND unplug every other device all except for my air conditioner, even after a full day of sun it will try to start and then the inverter will kick off and I hear a very long beep until I turn the inverter off. Also, after I tried the air conditioner my inverter kicked off after about 20 minutes of use with just a regular house fan.

Images of setup below:

http://imgur.com/a/pg2gb

Besides not having a battery system to meet your loads that Charge controller is a cheap PWM which turns your 200 watt panel to about 130 watt.

You also do not have a full 7 hours of peak sunlight so at best you may get 5.5hr which only get you less than 700 wh of charging which is a small fraction of what you use.

Start in the beginning and calculate your true watt hour usage. Use a kill a watt meter on all of the 120volt loads. That will get you a better watt usage then just multiplying the amps times the voltage.

Once you come up with your total daily watt hour you can size your battery bank, then your panel array and charge controller. Also you will need to down size that inverter to match what your battery can safely deliver.

I will tell you that running an AC unit or large fridge requires a big battery system which can get very expensive.

[inetdog]

Ahh, did not realize I had to add another zero on the 12v. Thanks for that. I'm brand new to the solar field so all of this is trial and error for now. Thank you.

It is potentially even worse than that.
With an inverter that is 100% efficient, 16A on the 120V AC side wOULD take 160A on the 12V DC side. Assuming the battery voltage is still 12V or higher.
But the inverter is usually only 95% efficient, and the terminal voltage at that inverter DC input may drop as low as 10V if the wiring is too small.
For that case, 16A AC will correspond to 202A DC.

[sdold]

Air Conditioner uses 20 Amps to start and 16 to run (Which I only need for 4 hours a day.)
Fridge takes 25 Amps for 6 hours a day.
Laptop charger takes 4 amps for 8 hours.
Iphone charger takes 3 amps for 8 hours.

Are these really 120V loads? The power consumption seems huge. The fridge can't be 25A at 120V. The AC, maybe, but still a lot of power. Do some of these (like the AC) run from 120V, and the rest from 12V?