the cost of coffee?

[J.P.M.]

This is a free country (supposedly), so do as you wish. Living in a free country, I, and perhaps some others choose to exercise some of that freedom by lowering usage before looking for other ways to meet our needs.

If my needs are lower, I guess it meets a need I apparently have to feel (falsely, I'm quite sure) more self reliant.

Probably closer to the truth, all these load reduction efforts may impart a bit less reliance the POCO.

Practical and more tangible results are that I've got more $$ in my pocket, maybe live a bit less hand to mouth, and I'm less affected by rate increases.

Just a lifestyle choice, but I seem to bitch less about paying for stuff I actually (still) waste than a lot of my neighbors, or others, who complain about things they'd actually see they have some control over were they less myopic about life and choices.

IMO only, a lot of those folks are too mentally and physically slothful to do anything about it except repeat what they're spoon fed by the media, peddlers, neighbors and friends who are telling them - in effect, it's OK to ignorantly, arrogantly and profligately waste things, and then throw expensive toys at the self induced and perceived large electric bills, and then brag about it.

I guess free also means free to stay ignorant and do stuff probably not in one's best long term interests.

Sheeple.

[SunEagle]

I'm all for conservation in our modern, wasteful world - but spending a few dollars a month (or adding a extra solar panel) is worth it to me for the conveniences that save me time, effort, hassle, and most of all - remembering to do something at the right time. I'm busy and can easily convert all those wasted minutes into serving my customers better which translates into them serving me better. The big reason for going solar (to me) is to have clean, renewable, abundant power without feeling bad about where its coming from. Its not just about the money (although my system has already paid for itself and I'm running on free sunshine). I know, I know - I'm still using power from the grid at night and being subsidized through net metering by the other rate payers. I'm also breathing in their polluted air, and eating fish polluted by Fukashima etc, etc.
Lets not get carried away, obsessing about tiny loads.

I am glad your system is sized properly for your usage.

Although a number of people come here asking if the system that they were told to get by some salesperson that meets 100% of their usage is the right size.

I would rather get people to find ways to eliminate some of their load (including those vampire ones which can add up) so that when they install a pv system which has been sized properly for their true usage and not over-sized to cover a lot of waste. That can save someone a few thousand up front by not adding in those 4 extra panels they really didn't need. IMO less usage will contribute to lowering the Utilities requirements to provide more energy which can lead to reducing some of that polluted air.

[russ]

I know - I'm still using power from the grid at night and being subsidized through net metering by the other rate payers. I'm also breathing in their polluted air, and eating fish polluted by Fukashima etc, etc.
Lets not get carried away, obsessing about tiny loads.

So the pollution is from everyone else? Even though the electrical share of that pollution is rather small. Come on!

My solar thermal system just went belly up - it will not be replaced by another - I'll get a heat pump style hot water heater.

[solarix]

I'm all for conservation in our modern, wasteful world - but spending a few dollars a month (or adding a extra solar panel) is worth it to me for the conveniences that save me time, effort, hassle, and most of all - remembering to do something at the right time. I'm busy and can easily convert all those wasted minutes into serving my customers better which translates into them serving me better. The big reason for going solar (to me) is to have clean, renewable, abundant power without feeling bad about where its coming from. Its not just about the money (although my system has already paid for itself and I'm running on free sunshine). I know, I know - I'm still using power from the grid at night and being subsidized through net metering by the other rate payers. I'm also breathing in their polluted air, and eating fish polluted by Fukashima etc, etc.
Lets not get carried away, obsessing about tiny loads.

[SunEagle]

Sort of reminds me of my first wife, except her hearing was very good.

Off topic but funny anyway.

[J.P.M.]

+1. May need a really big knocker if the owner is hard of hearing.

Sort of reminds me of my first wife, except her hearing was very good.

[SunEagle]

Umm couldnt you just get rid of the doorbell and install a knocker on the door....

Sorry could not resist the sarcasm.

+1. May need a really big knocker if the owner is hard of hearing.

[ArchAngel72]

That's brilliant....

Too bad my doorbell transformer is hardwired and I can't plug it in to a Kill-a-Watt. I'd be curious to know how much of a phantom load that is.

I think my doorbell gets rung about once every two weeks (I live in a quiet neighborhood). If the transformer pulls just 1W in standby, that's 0.336 kWh for each time the doorbell rings. Enough to make a full pot of coffee.

Maybe I could just replace it with a pull-cord, like on the Addams Family.

Umm couldnt you just get rid of the doorbell and install a knocker on the door....

Sorry could not resist the sarcasm.

[bcroe]

I understand just about 98% of my vampire loads. The issue is getting them turned off.

The biggest barrier is convincing the other members of the household to wait a couple of minutes to get their TV working or not to plug the hand vacuum or leaf blower into its charger every day.

Very small battery chargers seem to all be very inefficient. They draw a lot of current on
standby or when the battery is floating; the power about doubles when delivering maximum
charge current. That current typically is only a small percentage of the time. I did design
one 12V FLA maintainer with a very low standby drain, but there are others. Bruce Roe

[alterego]

My wife brought the percolator in last Thursday night.
So Friday Monday and Tuesday I have data chart from my consumers smart meter to compare from the last several days before Thursday.
It is really quite remarkable how consistent our usage spikes in the morning up above a kilowatt between 1 and 2 from 5 am to 7 am and then down to .5 at 8 am and floats in the .27 to .43 for several hours while people are not using things.

So with out the coffee pot the peaking for two hours is down below .75 kwh. So the coffee pot was eating more in the tune of .6 to .75 kwh.

I took pics of the charts but can not get them to upload.

[bcroe]

Too bad my doorbell transformer is hardwired and I can't plug it in to a Kill-a-Watt. I'd be curious to
know how much of a phantom load that is.

I think my doorbell gets rung about once every two weeks (I live in a quiet neighborhood). If the transformer pulls
just 1W in standby, that's 0.336 kWh for each time the doorbell rings. Enough to make a full pot of coffee.

If you're as serious as me, you'll unwire it and take a measurement. I'll bet its a lot closer to 3 watts than one.
I actually measured nearly 60 120 VAC circuits, by opening the breaker with a KILL-A-WATT connected across it.

1 watt was my threshold; I'd try to get it down to 0.1 W. Just eliminating waste; none of this involved retraining
personal or loss of service. Bruce Roe

[pleppik]

The doorbell transformer was eliminated by running it off the furnace transformer. Many surprisingly inefficient older control transformers and wall wart supplies can be replaced with a big improvement. Bruce Roe

That's brilliant....

Too bad my doorbell transformer is hardwired and I can't plug it in to a Kill-a-Watt. I'd be curious to know how much of a phantom load that is.

I think my doorbell gets rung about once every two weeks (I live in a quiet neighborhood). If the transformer pulls just 1W in standby, that's 0.336 kWh for each time the doorbell rings. Enough to make a full pot of coffee.

Maybe I could just replace it with a pull-cord, like on the Addams Family.

[SunEagle]

I put things that are actually working for me (refrigerator) in a different category, typically improved
by using the latest Energy Star stuff.

Phantom loads would be things that sit there doing nothing most of the time, but using power (garage
door opener/radio, doorbell transformer, battery maintainer, GFI, wall wart/in line power supply). The
doorbell transformer was eliminated by running it off the furnace transformer. Many surprisingly inefficient
older control transformers and wall wart supplies can be replaced with a big improvement. Bruce Roe

I understand just about 98% of my vampire loads. The issue is getting them turned off.

The biggest barrier is convincing the other members of the household to wait a couple of minutes to get their TV working or not to plug the hand vacuum or leaf blower into its charger every day. I at least got them to go to a 2 watt LED night light instead of those 12watt incandescent ones.

[bcroe]

I'm still working on my vampire hunting. I am down to about that 300 watts
(~$32/month) and I know a few places I can reduce it.
I use to like those "instant on" capabilities but now understand what it is costing me not to wait a few
minutes for something to "warm" up.

I put things that are actually working for me (refrigerator) in a different category, typically improved
by using the latest Energy Star stuff.

Phantom loads would be things that sit there doing nothing most of the time, but using power (garage
door opener/radio, doorbell transformer, battery maintainer, GFI, wall wart/in line power supply). The
doorbell transformer was eliminated by running it off the furnace transformer. Many surprisingly inefficient
older control transformers and wall wart supplies can be replaced with a big improvement. Bruce Roe

[SunEagle]

I've got about 200w of "base loads" that are always on, including Ozone bubbler for water tank, aerator for filter tank, couple night lights, one of 3 fridges always running, laptops, water heater brain, garage door receiver.
Some you just can't get rid of.

I'm still working on my vampire hunting. I am down to about that 300 watts (~$32/month) and I know a few places I can reduce it.

I use to like those "instant on" capabilities but now understand what it is costing me not to wait a few minutes for something to "warm" up.