Noobie ? Airconditioner

[Johann]

So... For 2 Air Conditioners would I just double those numbers? I'm just kidding of course.

It's pretty safe to say that air conditioners are the worst possible things to try to take off grid.

You are so right.
Noobies like me do not realize what is involved in it and how much they would have to spend until they do some research.

Heating and cooling are the most demanding power sources.

[jcX4ever]

Hi Johann, how was your project? I wonder what's the spec of the system you've come up to run your A/C?

*my rant
Been reading a lot of stuff on this site and I've learned a lot. I came here to play with solar and I know that I'll end up spending. This is like a hobby, I am not expecting a gain.. all for fun. However, some people here, like SUNKING, every post he writes are all negative. He tells the same information every thread. "You will be paying 10 times more .. blah blah blah.. and you buy a batter every 3-5 years.. ".. It's not helpful anymore.. and it's more like a troll.

[russ]

Been reading a lot of stuff on this site and I've learned a lot. I came here to play with solar and I know that I'll end up spending. This is like a hobby, I am not expecting a gain.. all for fun. However, some people here, like SUNKING, every post he writes are all negative. He tells the same information every thread. "You will be paying 10 times more .. blah blah blah.. and you buy a batter every 3-5 years.. ".. It's not helpful anymore.. and it's more like a troll.

Don't whine if you expect to be here - what Sunking says is true. Off grid ONLY makes sense if there is no commercial power available.

You are the troll in reality - your first post and only bitch!

[jcX4ever]

Don't whine if you expect to be here - what Sunking says is true. Off grid ONLY makes sense if there is no commercial power available.

You are the troll in reality - your first post and only bitch!

Notice that this thread has been buried and I have read as far to this. Also I've been here since 2011 just reading. You may call me troll if you want; if that is a definition of troll to you but you cannot be blind about Sunking replies too. He has a point but repeating the same information every time when someone ask about off grid is more like a troll. There are also others who complained about the same thing too, not only me.

Again, some people make/built/play SOLAR as a hobby and they expect no gain in return --- just for fun (also true for people who make quadcopters as hobby). They come here to get information about what they are asking. They already know they will eventually spend money.

Peace. I'll go back on reading mode.

[Sunking]

However, some people here, like SUNKING, every post he writes are all negative. He tells the same information every thread. "You will be paying 10 times more .. blah blah blah.. and you buy a batter every 3-5 years.. ".. It's not helpful anymore

Well it is still helpful and you seem to missing a lot of information. People come here every day with delusions. They think they can stick it to the POCO by going off-grid which is IMPOSSIBLE. It is that simple. They think they can save money which is WRONG and DELUSIONAL. They think it is Environmentally friendly which is WRONG and DELUSIONAL. So yeah I have to keep saying the same things over and over again.

I do no tcare if it hurts your feeling or anyone else's. If you are others are ignorant, I will tell you are ignorant. Political Correctness is a very bad thing and makes liars and wussies out of people. It takes cold hard truth to wake people up sometimes. If their feelings get hurt, too bad they will get over it and be thankful latter. As for this thread, the OP has commercial power and delusional thinking he/she could save money taking their Air Conditioner off-grid.


I understand Hobbies as I have a few of them. Hobbies are paid with disposable cash, not money intended for liabilities. I feel sorry for folks who come here having trouble paying their bills or wanting to save money by finding opportunities. In that case I have to keep saying the same thing. Solar is not the answer. If you do not like it, TOUGH I do not care what you think or if I hurt your feelings. If it bothers you just tells me you are not honest with yourself or life in general. Bet you arer one of those folks who thinks life has to be fair. Not going to happen.

[jcX4ever]

Well it is still helpful and you seem to missing a lot of information. People come here every day with delusions. They think they can stick it to the POCO by going off-grid which is IMPOSSIBLE. It is that simple. They think they can save money which is WRONG and DELUSIONAL. They think it is Environmentally friendly which is WRONG and DELUSIONAL. So yeah I have to keep saying the same things over and over again.

I do no tcare if it hurts your feeling or anyone else's. If you are others are ignorant, I will tell you are ignorant. Political Correctness is a very bad thing and makes liars and wussies out of people. It takes cold hard truth to wake people up sometimes. If their feelings get hurt, too bad they will get over it and be thankful latter. As for this thread, the OP has commercial power and delusional thinking he/she could save money taking their Air Conditioner off-grid.


I understand Hobbies as I have a few of them. Hobbies are paid with disposable cash, not money intended for liabilities. I feel sorry for folks who come here having trouble paying their bills or wanting to save money by finding opportunities. In that case I have to keep saying the same thing. Solar is not the answer. If you do not like it, TOUGH I do not care what you think or if I hurt your feelings. If it bothers you just tells me you are not honest with yourself or life in general. Bet you arer one of those folks who thinks life has to be fair. Not going to happen.

I am here for the challenge. Like I said, a hobby. Just like other people wanting to make their cars so fast and not expecting any ROI... Just pure fun and thrill.

I got to admit for your dedication telling to every people the same information every thread. 10,000 post, ONE message. However, your message is on the sticky and there's no need to be repeating this. You know this because you are the one who made the that sticky. Your information is now very common and heard many times. A repetition of this 10,000 times is only a form of spamming.

Also, your information is changing as time goes by since POCO prices trend are going up (>5% increases per year at some places) and solar equipment are going down (we now see <70 cents per watt, this was just a dream 10 years ago).

Again, thank you for the information. It is obviously very true... Off-grid is expensive and we now all know that. Thanks for the sticky. If people who know the fact that it is indeed expensive and still continue to seek information then that means they are here for the challenge or solar fun.

May the sun shine on our panels!

[Sunking]

No one reads the Stickies. They ask the same stupid questions 10,000 times and get the same answer 10,000 times. Don't know about where you live but where I live electric rates are falling with Natural gas prices nationwide.. Some 30% since 2008 and going lower. In 2008 electricity cost 13-cents. Today just under 8-cents.

There is no price electricity can go up, and no amount solar can go down for off-grid to be at parity. It is impossible. Inflation of consumer goods like solar panels. batteries etc will always rise faster then electric rates. Off-Grid solar will always be a multiple of the base fuel it takes to make it and that base energy is electricity.

If someone is doing it as I hobby, I help them. If someone thinks they can save money and Mother Earth I correct them as it is impossible. Once someone knows what they are doing and asking for, I help them. Those are my terms for free advice. I do not care if you like those terms or not.

[Volusiano]

Maybe 1 out of 100 people go on this forum and say I want to do off-grid solar for fun and I don't care what the cost is. Actually jcX4ever is the first and only one whom I saw who said he doesn't care about the cost.

Most people who want to do off-grid solar, even though they have access to the grid, shy away from it as soon as they realize how expensive it can be. So even if SunKing's advice given 100 times helps 99 people, I'd say it's worth given 100 times.

I agree, not everybody bother reading stickies. That's not to say stickies are worthless. They're useful for people who bother reading them. And somebody do read them.

[jcX4ever]

No one reads the Stickies. They ask the same stupid questions 10,000 times and get the same answer 10,000 times. Don't know about where you live but where I live electric rates are falling with Natural gas prices nationwide.. Some 30% since 2008 and going lower. In 2008 electricity cost 13-cents. Today just under 8-cents.

There is no price electricity can go up, and no amount solar can go down for off-grid to be at parity. It is impossible. Inflation of consumer goods like solar panels. batteries etc will always rise faster then electric rates. Off-Grid solar will always be a multiple of the base fuel it takes to make it and that base energy is electricity.

If someone is doing it as I hobby, I help them. If someone thinks they can save money and Mother Earth I correct them as it is impossible. Once someone knows what they are doing and asking for, I help them. Those are my terms for free advice. I do not care if you like those terms or not.

Here's a graph of increasing price of electricity at least in SoCal.
SCE-Rate-History.jpg
Edison-Rate-Changes-Residential-2012-141.jpg

BTW, Tier 4 is 31+ cents. This is how it works https://www.sce.com/SC3/CustomerServ.../tiered-rates/ . We have experienced a change of electric bill from $200 to $600 the next month because it was summer. The dramatic increase is because the more electricity you use, the higher (rate) they charge.

Here's the plummeting price of PV
naam-solar-moore_s-law-1.jpg
naam-solar-moore_s-law-6.jpg
TamHunt2.jpg

Of course, you are still right for now-- off grid is still expensive but it is changing.

[Volusiano]

Of course, you are still right for now-- off grid is still expensive but it is changing.

PV cost goes down primarily thanks to reducing cost of PV panels. Off-grid cost is still expensive because there's been no major breakthrough in battery technology to lower battery costs for off-grid storage. PV panels is not the limiting cost factor for off-grid system. Battery cost is.

Yes, lots of research is going on with battery technology for electric vehicles. But until batteries can be made cheap enough to make EVs ubiquitous and this advance can be spilled over to off-grid storage (probably not for another 5 to 10 years at least), off-grid storage will continue to be prohibitively expensive for most people.

[Sunking]

Here's a graph of increasing price of electricity at least in SoCal.

That explains everything, you live on the Left Coast and have no idea of how the real world operates. California decided decades ago to quit generating electricity and import it. You got what you asked for, SCREWED and you like it.

Solar panel prices only fell because it was a false market flooded with Government money and it failed. Most manufactures have gone out of biz and those that are left are trying to liquidate stock so they can get out.

[jcX4ever]

PV cost goes down primarily thanks to reducing cost of PV panels. Off-grid cost is still expensive because there's been no major breakthrough in battery technology to lower battery costs for off-grid storage. PV panels is not the limiting cost factor for off-grid system. Battery cost is.

Yes, lots of research is going on with battery technology for electric vehicles. But until batteries can be made cheap enough to make EVs ubiquitous and this advance can be spilled over to off-grid storage (probably not for another 5 to 10 years at least), off-grid storage will continue to be prohibitively expensive for most people.

You are right.

That explains everything, you live on the Left Coast and have no idea of how the real world operates. California decided decades ago to quit generating electricity and import it. You got what you asked for, SCREWED and you like it.

Solar panel prices only fell because it was a false market flooded with Government money and it failed. Most manufactures have gone out of biz and those that are left are trying to liquidate stock so they can get out.

Sorry, your generalization is wrong. Whatever the Government does has nothing to do with my knowledge and me as a whole.

[FunGas]

Anyway.

Dereck, before you tell me it's a waste of batteries, I aquire, on average 2 per month - OK, they are mostly knackered, but I have a stack of 10 sitting at a combined 13V now.

I'll remove the batteries from the stack one day I'm feeling brave and let them rest for a week or so before repurposing the duff ones...

[russ]

Sorry, your generalization is wrong. Whatever the Government does has nothing to do with my knowledge and me as a whole.

Sunking is saying that the state of CA made some popular if silly rules about power - it will only get more costly for people there in time to come. Making silly laws/rules without considering or understanding the consequence is one definition of stupid.

As for the cost of AC - build a home with natural cooling in mind and in some locations you can get along fine. I have yet to turn on the AC here since moving in in 2009 - being on the hill above the bay helps greatly. Izmir is not a cool place!

[russ]

Anyway.

Dereck, before you tell me it's a waste of batteries, I aquire, on average 2 per month - OK, they are mostly knackered, but I have a stack of 10 sitting at a combined 13V now.

I'll remove the batteries from the stack one day I'm feeling brave and let them rest for a week or so before repurposing the duff ones...

Anyway - what is the funny link for Anyway?