Proposed Off Grid Cabin Solar Setup..

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  • Sunking
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2010
    • 23301

    #16
    Originally posted by epsgunner
    Maybe these 6v Rolls an S-460 350ah $326 or S-530 400ah.. $360. I may be able to justify them.. 7 year warranty with a 2 year replacement.. even though the AH works to the same or less as 4 of the T-105RE's you pointed me toward
    OK you got me confused here.

    A T-105 is 6 volts @ 225 AH works out to 1350 Watt Hours of capacity. At $160 unit cost is $160/1350 wh = .1185.wh.

    The Rolls S-460 is 6 volts @ 350 AH works out to 2100 watt hours. At $326 unit cost is $326/2100 wh = .1552/wh

    Anyway what has me confused is 4 of the Rolls S-460 at the 20 hour rate has 4 x 2100 wh = 8400 watt hours capacity. 4 of the T-105's has 4 x 1350 wh = 5400 watt hours. It would take roughly 6 of the T-105's to equal 4 of the Rolls.

    If you are going to go with T-105's at least use the T-105RE line up. But if you intend to use 8 of them in a 24 volt configuration means you will have to have two parallel strings which is going to significantly shorten the battery life. If you are going to use 8 of the T-105's I would recommend you configure them as 48 volts instead of 24 volts. If you use say a Outback FM 60 MPPT charge controller you can grow the system to 3200 watts vs 1600 at 24 volts.

    I also encourage you to drop the PWM controller and move up to MPPT. A 500 watt panel wattage using a MPPT controller wil generate as much energy as your proposed 760 watt on a PWM controoler. There is also a added benefit of using MPPT controllers. You are not trapped into use solar panels made for battery systems. You can use panels made for Grid tied applications which as less expensive than battery panels.

    You also get one more added benefit with MPPT controllers. You can run th epanel voltage much higher. That means less losses using much smaller less expensive wire. So overall you save quite a bit of money right up front using MPPT controllers. Panel $/w cost is lower, use less wattage, lower line losses, and less expensive wiring and installetion cost. Do that and you will be able to afford good batteries like the Rolls.

    Did they tell you that on the other forum?
    MSEE, PE

    Comment

    • Mike90250
      Moderator
      • May 2009
      • 16020

      #17
      This just screams 48V system, with starting an AC load, 24V may not have enough "omphh" in the batteries.

      48V cables and losses will be easier too.

      There is a link in my .sig for a cable loss spreadsheet, use it, remember, the motor starting surge the cable needs to handle, is about 5x the running power, 500w of compressor motor likely needs 2500W to start, and amps from a 24V bank would be 104 A, and you need less than 3% loss, or the inverter shuts down, from under voltage. 48V is only 52 amps surge.
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

      Comment

      • epsgunner
        Solar Fanatic
        • May 2012
        • 133

        #18
        Sunking..

        Do you have a decent MPPT controller for under $275 that can handle these 2 possible scenerios??

        My proposed panels are either going to be Kyocera 12v 130 w panels (17.4 VMP, 7.75 IMP) x 6 (2 in series (34.8 VMP, 7.75, VOC would be 43.4) then the 3 in parallel) (23.25 IMP)

        or possibly 3 280 w panels (35.5 VMP, 7.89 IMP, VOC 45) in parallel.. (23.67 IMP)

        If I had to go with something I'd prefer the MorningStar 15 MPPT.. but it looks as though I am ABOVE the max rating on that.. and the Stecca 2010 is rated at 20 amps max as well..

        The BlueSky SB3024IL or DIL (with display) looks good but the price is over $325..

        The Rogue MPT-3024 is nice too but again $325
        1160 watts, Midnite 150 , Xantrex SW2000

        Comment

        • photowhit
          Junior Member
          • Apr 2010
          • 21

          #19
          Hi SunKing...

          Originally posted by epsgunner
          Sunking

          $1200 every 2 years (for 8 (6v) T105's = 440ah) seems better than $3200 right now..

          The T-105 is 62 lbs.. I agree the T-105RE is only slightly more $ and a 2 yr warranty... which may be of interest.. but the Rolls is out..

          I plan on running the A/C for 2 hours per day at the most.. which if I ran during peak time 1-3 or 2-4 I will still have max power coming into the panel set.. the A/C is rated at 550 watts AC.. (or 55 amps DC per hour)...
          Hi SunKing, old buddy old Pal...

          Heard poor Gunner was getting Grief from someone on another forum and I knew with out asking....

          For the record, I managed 4 summers out of my year old Sam's Club basic Golf Cart batteries, in a 24V bank, on my Off Grid system running the AC 2-4 hours a night. (less duty cycle as compressor cycles on and off) Think I left that forum before I had retired them. and I started with a fixxed 1000 watt array, 24 volt system.

          I have argued that PWM makes more sense for him as his heavy use is in summer, I think he said that, are you listening? with the voltage drop on hot panels a MPPT charge controller might give him a 10% advantage at best during the summer months, much rather see him put that money into array wattage.

          Keeping the batteries cool will be important, with talking to him he's going with a smaller area to try to AC and (hopefully) more insulation.

          I wouldn't start a 'new to solar' person off with expensive batteries, I rather like the idea of going 48 volt, single string, but the availability inexpensive, 48V inverters presented a problem.

          Keeping batteries cool will be a trick, we've suggested a berm shelter.

          Do wish he could build in the shade, but didn't look like there was any, he's decided to try to AC only a small portion of the cabin, and appears to have a realistic idea of how long he'll be able to get out of his system.

          For those "growing" a system, I added to the array over the 4 years on the original 4 GC batteries and I could run the AC longer during the day as my array grew to @1700watts, when they finally died at 5yrs old (one summer of fans), I put in a large traction battery. It ended up being a fairly, reasonably practical way to grow a system. Something hard to do with solar.

          FWIW this was a small 10x16 cabin with a sleeping loft, built with 6" walls and R30+ floors, insulated windows, Built in the shade, even mostly shaded here in winter, almost finished;

          Comment

          • Sunking
            Solar Fanatic
            • Feb 2010
            • 23301

            #20
            Originally posted by photowhit
            Hi SunKing, old buddy old Pal...
            So you still riding a bike and using public bathrooms down by the lake to take care of biz and shower in? I think you said you live in a Gated HOA community in North East Missouri around Mark Twin Forrest right?
            MSEE, PE

            Comment

            • epsgunner
              Solar Fanatic
              • May 2012
              • 133

              #21
              Heres a picture of the 12x24 cabin for a reference..

              1160 watts, Midnite 150 , Xantrex SW2000

              Comment

              • photowhit
                Junior Member
                • Apr 2010
                • 21

                #22
                Originally posted by Sunking
                So you still riding a bike and using public bathrooms down by the lake to take care of biz and shower in? I think you said you live in a Gated HOA community in North East Missouri around Mark Twin Forrest right?
                Close but confused as usual, My cabin in a gated camping community. I was using the community comfort stations while I finished my bath and still use them from time to time... Central Missouri.

                I did cycle @7000 miles before ending up here for what I thought was just the winter...

                Comment

                • Sunking
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 23301

                  #23
                  Originally posted by photowhit
                  Close but confused as usual,
                  Do not know if confused a good is the right term, for something I was told 4 or 5 years ago and going on memory. I think it is Twin Oaks Harbor or something like that if my memory is not confused. I also seem to recall you work as a security guard for the HOA riding your bike to patrol
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment

                  • Naptown
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Feb 2011
                    • 6880

                    #24
                    Originally posted by epsgunner
                    Heres a picture of the 12x24 cabin for a reference..

                    Sorry to be an A hole but that is a shed not a cabin. Perhaps it may be turned into a cabin but as shown it is a shed.
                    NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

                    [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

                    [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

                    [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

                    Comment

                    • epsgunner
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • May 2012
                      • 133

                      #25
                      For zoning and taxes I don't mind the shed nomenclature.. $30/year for taxes..

                      County tax guy said it may go up to $60/year when all done with windows and such..

                      The 13 1/2" peak makes for a nice 5-6' loft area near the rear is all I know.. and for $5800 it was done in a day..

                      The good news is the local sheriff said I can start my own range on the 11 acres.. (NRA instructor).. camp and shoot.. has a nice ring to it..
                      1160 watts, Midnite 150 , Xantrex SW2000

                      Comment

                      • Sunking
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 23301

                        #26
                        Just how are you going to insulate that thing? I live in TX and know what summer is like in the TX dessert. You do not have a lick of shade in bond dry air. That thing will be a solar oven.
                        MSEE, PE

                        Comment

                        • epsgunner
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • May 2012
                          • 133

                          #27
                          Walls are 16" on center.. some 6" insualtion on walls and roof.. going to sheet rock and then panel the entire thing.. 3 windows.. screen/storm door.. couple fans and A/C for max of 2 hours midday from either 1-3 or 2-4pm..
                          1160 watts, Midnite 150 , Xantrex SW2000

                          Comment

                          • Sunking
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 23301

                            #28
                            What kind of insulation?

                            If using Fiberglass Bat 6 inches gives you roughly r-19 with sheathing and sheet rock around 20 to 21.
                            MSEE, PE

                            Comment

                            • epsgunner
                              Solar Fanatic
                              • May 2012
                              • 133

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Sunking
                              What kind of insulation?

                              If using Fiberglass Bat 6 inches gives you roughly r-19 with sheathing and sheet rock around 20 to 21.
                              R-19 is correct.. then rock.. then paneling..
                              1160 watts, Midnite 150 , Xantrex SW2000

                              Comment

                              • Sunking
                                Solar Fanatic
                                • Feb 2010
                                • 23301

                                #30
                                You might want to search the Web for free J Calculations to see what it will take to cool that building. I ran mine used in my bis and coming up with 1.2 tons in El Paso TX. Based on that you said th eAC unit you plan on using is 550 watts sounds like 1/2 ton or 6000 BTU's with an SEER of 11
                                MSEE, PE

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